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The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:46 pm
by Maddy
In another thread, Xan expressed an interest in knowing more about my (now not-so-recent) move to the country. Actually, the term "country" is a little misleading, since it suggests a summer house in the Hamptons, which this certainly is not. I'm about 10 miles outside of a small town, surrounded by mountains and forest, and connected to the internet by satellite. I'm not sure what would interest other folks about what I'm doing, but probably the most unusual aspect of my transition from a life in the city to a homestead in the boonies is the fact that I was in my mid-fifties when I did it, and the fact that I did it alone.

What made me choose this kind of life? I guess I'd have to say total disenchantment with the alternative. I had been working in a high-powered litigation firm for many years. I was successful at what I did and enjoyed the exhilaration of the practice, but the stress was getting to me in a serious way. I pretty much ran on adrenaline and fear. I sometimes went weeks while immersed in a project without seeing the light of day, or even knowing what the weather was outside.

I can't really say what propelled me in this direction. My most important influence and role model while growing up was an Amish couple, and their quiet simplicity was something that in later years I found myself yearning to replicate in my own life. There were some other experiences when I got very brief glimpses of life in the mountains, and the feeling I always came away with was a "high" I can't describe.

When I made the move, which was about 6 years ago now, I didn't have much in the way of country skills, and my nestegg was pretty limited. I really didn't have a clue how I was going to make a living. I had never mended a fence, never filled a gasoline can or started a generator, never shoveled a driveway, never cooked with wood heat, never shot a rifle, never changed a tire (much less all four of them), never felled a tree or split four cords of wood. I had never even driven on snow. Suffice it to say that my learning curve has been steep.

After a couple of years, my little nestegg was pretty much gone. (It's darned expensive to get started in the country.) When that happened, the safety net suddenly disappeared, which is a scary proposition in a depressed rural community with extremely high unemployment and not a lot of discretionary income floating around. Indeed, there has been no easy answer to that problem, which I've dealt with by taking any kind of work that's offered to me and by building a smattering of part-time businesses that spin off just enough income to crack the nut each month. This time of year, my main source of income is farming. I grow a variety of things that I sell at the farmer's markets. It's been tricky finding the "niche" products that nobody else is selling, since I cannot compete with the locals with large tracts of land and machinery. (I do everything by hand.) Come October, that gig will be over, and undoubtedly I'll be doing something else, but I'm too busy to even think about what that might be.

Quite apart from making a living, just maintaining a rural piece of land can be overwhelming. Mowing is a 6-hour job that has to be done at least every week or two because of the ever-present danger of grass fires. Wood has to be put up for the winter. Fencing needs to be repaired. Gophers in the pasture need to be trapped or shot. The well has to be shocked and the cistern cleaned. Fruit from the trees and vegetables from the garden have to be processed (either canned, dried, or frozen). The gas-powered equipment has to be repaired and maintained. (Yes, this city girl really does crawl under a mower.) In another month, when the first hint of fall is in the air, everyone will feel the same sense of panic about getting it all done by the time the first snow flies.

This kind of work takes a real toll on a woman, all the more so when you're pushing 60 and everything constantly hurts. My day typically starts at 3 a.m., and I generally drop into bed exhausted by 7. I've usually got at least a couple of new bruises and scrapes.

Despite the hardship, I have never regretted this move for an instant. The quality of life is incredible. Relationships with people are as simple as putting on a pair of gloves and helping a neighbor pull a tree out of the road. People are plain and unpretentious, and even though folks are quite spread out, there is a strong sense of community. If you run your car into the ditch, somebody will undoubtedly come along with a truck and a winch and pull you out. In fact, there's a lot of give-and-take in everything. Neighbors helping neighbors, people joining together to get a job done; that's a big part of the culture here.

Another really neat thing about the country is that there is a recurring rhythm to things. Every month of the year has its particular tasks and challenges. You can look out from the mountain onto the farms in the valley below and know what time of year it is just by looking at the crops and the activity that's going on. And because everybody's pretty much on the same schedule, facing the same challenges, there's a strong sense of common purpose. You never question why you get up in the morning, which is something I often did when I lived in the city and worked in an office with marble and glass.

Oh, and did I mention those incredible dusty blue mountains set against the emerald green grass? Seriously, not a day goes by that I don't consciously think about how lucky I am to be here.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:05 pm
by Mountaineer
Maddy, all I can say is Awesome, well done. Sounds like you discovered what a real down to earth life, close to nature, and appreciating neighbors and every moment given to you is like. Thanks for sharing.

... Mountaineer

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:13 pm
by Maddy
Has anyone else felt a pressing need to escape the city and actually thought about acting on it? If so, why haven't you? Is this a terribly unlikely thing for an INTJ to do?

One more thing I wanted to add: At times I feel like a real curmudgeon on this forum, with nothing good to say about technology, modernity in general, or progressivism. Maybe this thread sheds some light on why I feel so strongly when it comes to these topics; I feel viciously protective of what I have.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:09 am
by Mountaineer
Maddy wrote:Has anyone else felt a pressing need to escape the city and actually thought about acting on it? If so, why haven't you? Is this a terribly unlikely thing for an INTJ to do?

One more thing I wanted to add: At times I feel like a real curmudgeon on this forum, with nothing good to say about technology, modernity in general, or progressivism. Maybe this thread sheds some light on why I feel so strongly when it comes to these topics; I feel viciously protective of what I have.
Maddy,

I grew up in rural West Virginia (one motto is "almost heaven" - think John Denver and Country Roads) on a couple of acres about a mile from a 600 person town. My family always had a garden that provided much food for the coming year. I went to high school in a far larger town of 800, then to a university in a really huge city of 25,000. ;) Since then, I've mainly lived in suburbs, even though larger cities were not far away (Houston, Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore). My definition of hell is a large city, probably because I grew up in an area where I could shoot a gun, walk in the woods, explore caves, and ride my bike all day long and never be afraid of being in harms way or alarming anyone - freedom with few externally imposed boundries! Neighbors were friendly, looked out for one another and rarely did we have to lock a door. There were no gangs. Again, my definition of hell would be having to live in a large city. I do however enjoy the benefits of technology such as the computer I'm typing on now ... and my smartphone, refrigerator, HVAC system, medical facilities, and car. I do think living in a less congested area makes it easier to understand that milk comes from cows, not a carton, and in general enables one to make a stronger connection to nature and the value of the life we have been given than one who has only experienced city life - but I am biased by my experiences. I have pretty much escaped the city, but not nearly as thoroughly as you. Bless you. ;D

The only time I venture into a large city is when visitors come and want to see something, or I'm traveling. Otherwise, I do not go. Cities are hell for me.

... Mountaineer

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:31 am
by Maddy
The only farm critters right now are a mama and baby cow pair that belong to a neighbor. They help with the mowing and give my dog, who has great working instincts, something to be in charge of. I'm working on a goat set-up right now.

West Virginia was a place that I looked at seriously. Ultimately it was the heat + humidity issue that made me opt for the west. Working in hot weather is tolerable when it's dry, but a humid heat just shuts me down.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:40 am
by WiseOne
Maddy - wow. I am full of admiration for what you've accomplished. Lots of people think about disengaging from the rat race, but hardly anyone acts on it the way you have.

It sounds like you have taken on a lot of physical work, and I'm assuming you live alone. How do you see that playing out over the next 10, 20 etc years?

I hear you on the aches and pains. Stretching exercises and simple, short (10 minute) yoga routines can do wonders for this, and hopefully will fit into your schedule. The yoga routines are easy to find on youtube. Bruises and scrapes are another story of course!

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:15 am
by Maddy
WiseOne, that's an interesting question about where things will be 10 or 20 years from now. It's something I should think about more, because the fantasy of staying young and physically capable forever is just that. Dr. Andrew Weil, in his book called "Healthy Aging" (which I highly recommend, btw), states that one form of denial of aging--along with cosmetics and plastic surgery--is continuing to push your body to do things that it's no longer meant to do. When I read that, I immediately recognized that syndrome in myself. I do tend to ignore the fact that at any time I could get seriously ill or injured and be unable to do what I do now.

Personally, I think I'd rather die pushing a wheelbarrow than give up this way of life, and frankly that's probably the way it will happen. I've met some other women out here who feel similarly. Most of them are married, so their situation is a little different, but in the same vein they worry about what will happen if their spouse dies and they end up alone. None of us has any good answers.

Yoga is a good thought. I've also started paying close attention to the research on diet and longevity. Cutting out sugar and fast carbs has made a huge difference in the arthritic stuff; hopefully with time it will give me more energy.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:02 am
by Kbg
Maddy,

As a fellow western out in the country person I think you tailor the experience to what you want out of life and what you are physically capable of. For me, having time to do what I want to do was a major consideration and having grown up out here I knew I didn't want to lock myself down being a full time small farmer. Some people love it and it is their passion. I like it but only as a part of what I do, so I have some automation and designed my landscape to be minimal maintenance...but the point of this post isn't method, it's make sure a different type of tyranny to something doesn't takeover.

For me, I would despise being tied to milking a freaking cow twice a day. A tyranny of the worst sort. ;)

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:58 am
by WiseOne
Wow, and here I was worried about buying a 5th floor apartment in a building with only one elevator. I figured that between neighbors and staff in the complex, plus the fact that you can order anything on line and get it delivered, I'd be fine. Also, there are quite a number of people aged 90+ in this complex who manage just fine - even with apartments in the walkup buildings (4 stories, no elevator).

I think that's your answer: staying in good shape through constant physical activity, arranging things so that you can handle them as you age, e.g. hiring people to do the stuff you can't do and finding ways to earn money that don't involve physical labor, like tutoring online, and calling on friends and neighbors for help when necessary. And perhaps it would be a good idea to keep up your credentialling, so you can always hang out a shingle and take local cases if the need arose.

Of course, becoming financially independent would solve a lot of your issues as well. And this IS an investing forum after all. No need to comment if you don't want to, but are you managing to rebuild your nest egg?

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:21 pm
by Maddy
WiseOne wrote:Of course, becoming financially independent would solve a lot of your issues as well. And this IS an investing forum after all. No need to comment if you don't want to, but are you managing to rebuild your nest egg?
Unfortunately I'll probably never be financially independent--at least not in the sense of having a decent-sized portfolio that spins off enough income to live on comfortably. Regrettably, I became financially literate far too late in the game. While in law school, I was encouraged by virtually every academic mentor to borrow as much money as possible and counseled that top grades would ultimately make it all work out. They obviously didn't consider the possibility that I might not want the kind of life they had planned out for me, and at the time I was too ignorant of what lay ahead professionally to see the defect in their reasoning.

I did manage to sock away a few sheckels over the years, but by the time middle age rolled around and I was burning out, it wasn't even close to the amount I would need to retire in the usual sense of the word. I could have continued to slog along as I was, and maybe I would have reached FI eventually, but it was clear that I would be too old at that point to do any of the things that really mattered to me. That's why I took the leap, knowing full well that I would probably be drawing my savings down substantially and that I'd probably have to work, in one form or another, for the rest of my life.

If I had become financially literate earlier in my life, and followed the PP prescription from the start, things would undoubtedly be easier. But we play the hand we're dealt, and make the best of our past decisions.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:44 pm
by barrett
Maddy, Just jumping in to ask if you've looked into your SS benefit. If you made a nice income for a good number of years, your monthly benefit might be quite good. Of course you always get more on a monthly basis if you can delay it as long as possible (up to age 70), but that isn't always the best choice for everyone.

And kudos for following a dream. As WiseOne said, lots of people talk about making huge changes but it's rare that they actually make the leap.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:48 pm
by Maddy
Hi Barrett-- Yes, I've got a couple of years to go before I'm eligible for SS benefits, but that will certainly help. In my situation, it probably makes good sense to take them early.

On another subject, I was thinking about my last post and regretted making it sound like I was regretful of the past decisions I made. True, they could have been better, but if I had done everything right, I probably wouldn't have had some of the greatest experiences of my life, all of which depended, in one way or another, on not having a safety net. In particular, it was the fact that I had absolutely no choice but to make things work out that caused me to draw on inner resources that I didn't know I had. I'm very grateful for that.

For those interested in extreme homesteading, there is a quality Canadian PBS series called "Pioneer Quest" that I highly recommend. It's a 6-hour documentary that follows two modern-day couples--one young, one middle-aged--into the Manitoba wilderness, where they live in 1850s-style for a full year. I believe it's on DVD now. Were I younger, I would love to do something like that.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:13 pm
by craigr
Fascinating story. Thanks for sharing it.

You're right though about your body. Over time you must adapt to what it can and can't do. There are things I used to love doing, but just gave them up due to injury risk as I've gotten older. FWIW, I find pumping iron has been the best thing I've done to fight off aging. But having lived in the country in the past and doing lots of related chores, it's probably the same thing as hitting a gym.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:55 am
by Maddy
Chores such as turning a compost pile, dragging fence posts, splitting wood, or shoveling snow seem to yank at muscle groups in harsh, uncontrolled ways, leaving you feeling beat up, not stronger. I know that's a recipe for injury. I've wondered whether weight lifting, being a more controlled exercise, might actually help me build muscle. I admit to being curious about things like HGH precursors.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:14 am
by curlew
My brother bought the whole side of a mountain and built a cabin in New Hampshire and that's where he's spending his retirement years, chopping his own fire wood and tending to his hiking trails. He also has a house in the city a few hours away in Maine, probably because his wife wants it. She goes back and forth to the city and he mostly stays at the cabin.

Right now I'm extremely jealous. I grew up in the country and would love to have a cabin in the mountains but I have the same situation as my brother - a younger wife who is a city girl (and still working). And the closest mountains are in southern Georgia about 10 hours away. Maybe some day.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:28 am
by Maddy
She goes back and forth to the city and he mostly stays at the cabin.


That sounds like the ideal marriage to me! Ha!

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:46 am
by WiseOne
Maddy wrote:Chores such as turning a compost pile, dragging fence posts, splitting wood, or shoveling snow seem to yank at muscle groups in harsh, uncontrolled ways, leaving you feeling beat up, not stronger. I know that's a recipe for injury. I've wondered whether weight lifting, being a more controlled exercise, might actually help me build muscle. I admit to being curious about things like HGH precursors.
That does sound like it would be hard on the back & neck. Changing your body ergonomics to protect your back and use the big muscle groups is a start. Using the right tools is another...compost tumblers and snow blowers cost money that I'm aware is an issue for you, but you could consider it as a form of insurance against an injury that could result in reduced income down the road.

However, I'm full of admiration for you, taking all this on as a single woman your age. Your story is really inspiring. And thanks for the pointer to that Canadian TV series.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:00 am
by WiseOne
Maddy wrote:Hi Barrett-- Yes, I've got a couple of years to go before I'm eligible for SS benefits, but that will certainly help. In my situation, it probably makes good sense to take them early.
I saw an interesting article the other day making the case that taking SS benefits early is a financial win almost always, contrary to popular wisdom. It's because the usual break-even calculation doesn't take investment earnings on those early benefits into account. Nor does it take into account the effects of inflation. So - no reason to delay even if you only plan on using it to allow you to cut down on the physical labor, which again you can regard as a method of income protection.

Re: The Permanent Homestead (a/k/a Ditching Life in the City)

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:08 am
by Maddy
Well that presents an interesting thought. . . Take early SS and sock most of it away PP-style. I may have yet another chance at doing it right!

Making a living here is getting easier as time goes by and I discover what works and what doesn't. Also, it's interesting how just about everybody I meet has an experience or resource that moves me in a new direction. Just the other day, I hired a gentleman from this area to do some hauling for me. It turns out that among other things, he'd raised meat goats and done very well supplying ethnic markets. The week before that, I was introduced to somebody who does bees. (Priced honey lately?) Just about every day, there's a new person or idea that drops a jewel on me, and just about every month my palty little income is a little bit better.

WiseOne, I see that the Pioneer Quest series is now available from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Quest-Fu ... r+quest%22 I found the younger couple, Frank and Alana Logge, to be really endearing. They approached the experience with just the right spirit--never a complaint. Alana was a psychiatric nurse, and Frank a manager at Home Depot. I've often wondered what happened to them; I really could have seen them living out the rest of their lives happily in 1850s style. I guarantee you'll have no qualms about the 4th floor apartment after watching a few episodes of that!