Citizen's Dividend

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jafs
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by jafs » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:57 pm

I can think of any number of ways people might try to scam a cd system.

Non-citizens might try to get it.
People might try to get more than their share - by faking ss#'s, claiming ones of dead people, etc.
If it uses sophie's idea of higher taxation, then rich and upper middle class people would try to get out of paying those taxes.

I'm sure there are more, but that's just off the top of my head.

I'll stop now, though - it's clear that some of you are very attached to this idea. I think it's an interesting one, but nowhere near the panacea that some think.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:29 pm

Image

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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 am

It just occurred to me that too many people would become professional protesters.
(shudder)
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by pugchief » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:34 am

dualstow wrote:It just occurred to me that too many people would become professional protesters.
(shudder)
When I first read that, my brain saw posters and I thought, well, it wouldn't be so bad if we got some fresh blood here. D'oh!

But to what you actually wrote, I think there may already be way too many 'unemployed*' people doing that 'job'.


*Do full-on SJWs really want a real, productive job? Or are they happier spending their time protesting, etc, for their cause? Serious question.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:37 am

I feel the same.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:13 am

pugchief wrote: *Do full-on SJWs really want a real, productive job? Or are they happier spending their time protesting, etc, for their cause? Serious question.
I know several full-on SJWs that have jobs (I can't say how productive they are though, I have no information on that). The SJWs I know tend to be liberal-progressive religious types that think they (not God) can create heaven on earth now (which in my opinion is very non-Biblical). They tend to be affiliated with congregations that have endorsed same-sex marriage, abortion, worship the creature instead of the Creator, and have or endorse homosexual pastors (again, in my opinion very anti-Scriptural positions).
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:23 am

Thank you, Mountaineer, for finding a subset of SJW's that I can actually find common ground with.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:23 am

I hope PS chimes in on this question. IIRC, he knows many "real" SJWs from his time in college.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:47 am

The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:02 pm

dualstow wrote:Thank you, Mountaineer, for finding a subset of SJW's that I can actually find common ground with.
You are most welcome. I do hope you stick around on the bright side of the grass for a while before joining those SJWs in that common toasty ground. ;)

Blessings Dude, and stay warm in this freezing weather (at least where I am). It will get very hot eventually.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:11 pm

Pointedstick wrote:The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
You left out the environmentalists (though perhaps not, depending on if they are in one of the careers you mentioned) and TV preachers. 8)
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:15 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
You left out the environmentalists (though perhaps not, depending on if they are in one of the careers you mentioned) and TV preachers. 8)
"Environmentalist" isn't a job. And we must live in very different worlds, because I don't think I've ever heard of a left-leaning SJW-type TV preacher. My impression is that they're all manipulative right-wing loonies.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:The golden age of activism is in your 20s. My SJW acquaintances are beginning to age out of it as they realize that it doesn't bring in any real money and being dead broke all the time as an adult really sucks. However, older SJW types I know never lose the fire-- they just enter compatible careers, like journalist, magazine editor, lawyer (civil rights or criminal defense, of course) college professor, or head of a nonprofit.
You left out the environmentalists (though perhaps not, depending on if they are in one of the careers you mentioned) and TV preachers. 8)
"Environmentalist" isn't a job. And we must live in very different worlds, because I don't think I've ever heard of a left-leaning SJW-type TV preacher. My impression is that they're all manipulative right-wing loonies.
Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job. As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice and https://answers.yahoo.com/question/inde ... 833AArrUZk
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:49 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:17 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
dualstow wrote:Thank you, Mountaineer, for finding a subset of SJW's that I can actually find common ground with.
You are most welcome. I do hope you stick around on the bright side of the grass for a while before joining those SJWs in that common toasty ground. ;)

Blessings Dude, and stay warm in this freezing weather (at least where I am). It will get very hot eventually.
I hope I get a separate section from the other SJWs, M. Otherwise, that would be hell on ear- well, hell in hell.

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images ... artoon.jpg

http://imagecache5d.allposters.com/wate ... 4&type=cns // fixed repeat

http://imagecache5d.allposters.com/wate ... 5&type=cns

The caption for this is missing, but it's "I feel a draft" Reminds me of grandma.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by farjean2 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:31 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
I saw Joel Osteen on television once and if it wasn't the silliest thing I ever heard I don't know what is. He was preaching a sermon about "God's Favor" and how you should recognize it in your life when you see it - like when you are in a parking lot and there is only one space left - that's God's favor. Or you are at the grocery store and suddenly the line in front of you becomes empty - that's God's favor and you should acknowledge it and give thanks to the almighty for being so special to him. I thought to myself, Jesus H. Christ, wouldn't it be better when you came upon a situation like that and you really thought God had anything to do with it, to tell him he didn't need to waste his time because there were a lot of people starving and suffering all over the world and he could help them instead?
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:41 pm

Now you are just being sensible, farjean, and such cold logic is frowned upon.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:59 pm

I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by farjean2 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:52 pm

Xan wrote:I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
Okay, so to bring it back on track, maybe the question should be would Joel Osteen approve of the Citiziens Dividend? Or better yet, how about the almighty?
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:18 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:Some in the EPA might not agree with it not being a job.
People who work for the EPA are regulators and bureaucrats. I stand by what I said: "environmentalist" isn't a job.
Mountaineer wrote: As for the lefty SJW type TV preachers, you need to get out more; hint - one does not need to be ordained to "preach". ;) For example: https://www.freespeech.org/tags/social-justice
Those aren't TV preachers. They're political activists--likely mostly atheists.
Joel Osteen isn't a lefty SJW type. He's a right-leaning prosperity gospel guy.

Oh god, what am I doing? I'm letting myself get dragged into a pedantic, trollish internet argument over definitions. I am now formally stopping!
Hook, line, sinker. Got ya! O0 All in good fun, of course. Peace, and, I apologize to my NM friend. Gotta go take in an Osteen show or three now so I can get reprimed for some prosperity. ;D
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:24 pm

farjean2 wrote:
Xan wrote:I don't think you'll find anyone here (I could be wrong, but definitely not me and Mountaineer) who is a fan of Joel Osteen and his "gospel".

We're a bit off-track in this thread!
Okay, so to bring it back on track, maybe the question should be would Joel Osteen approve of the Citiziens Dividend? Or better yet, how about the almighty?
I think the Almighty might say, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's, and perhaps throw in a - I've told you this a thousand times, stop your naval gazing and pay attention to what is eternally important. Just guessing. :)
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:33 pm

TennPaGa wrote:
dualstow wrote:It just occurred to me that too many people would become professional protesters.
(shudder)
You mean some people would quit their paying jobs and do something else? That would likely happen. And some of these people would spend more time at protests? Like Tea Party meetings or anti-abortion rallies? I suppose that could happen too.

As to whether it would be "too many"... I'm not sure how to say.
I think a real honest to goodness Citizens Dividend would be to stop murdering the future citizens who are humans but not yet born. However, framing the reality of murder as womens' rights is oh so much more PC.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:45 pm

M, could you not drag abortion into this, too? Your position is well known, same as perdition.

Tenn: I don't think job holders would quit so they could protest, but I do think non-workers would be more free to protest. They wouldn't need sponsors to sustain them.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:38 pm

dualstow wrote:M, could you not drag abortion into this, too? Your position is well known, same as perdition.

Tenn: I don't think job holders would quit so they could protest, but I do think non-workers would be more free to protest. They wouldn't need sponsors to sustain them.
dualstow, that is a very reasonable request. From my perspective, it would be far more reasonable if you refuted facts, or presented a case of your own rather than just dismissing a comment because of who said it and their position. What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we are murdering those who might benefit? It seems we tend on this forum to spend much time discussing non-core importance items rather than many of ultimate importance. I doubt my tombstone will say anything about my investing accumen, how much gold I purchased, whether or not I followed the PP or Boglehead style of investing, or how many concerts I attended. The reason I stay on this forum is I value the discussion, the opinions, and learning about the worldviews of the participants on a variety of topics because I think the participants are a cut above the normal in intelligence. I think the topic of infanticide and Citizen's Dividend are very closely connected. Squelching comments that are political or religious in nature just because it is not PC is more reflective of the intolerant, "tolerant" left that only values hearing from those within their bubble - hello Hollywood. It comes across as more like the judge who ruled against Trump's travel ban just because it was Trump that said it rather than what the Law says. Personally, I like to hear all sides, even those I think are way off reality or way off all the evidence that is in front of our eyes, if we just open those eyes to see. My opinion, YMMV.
The darkness will always war against the light. And the light must always war against the darkness. You either let the darkness overcome you, or you overcome the darkness. The mission: Whatever darkness, compromise, or ungodly thing still exists in your life, no matter how small, today, root it out. There is no middle ground.
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Re: Citizen's Dividend

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Mountaineer, it's getting really tiresome how your contributions to every single thread you participate in amount to relating it to God, or abortion, or your religious faith in some other capacity. We all get it. You're a proud member of the LCMS church and your faith is central to you in your remaining years. But abortion has no relationship whatsoever to the proposed "Citizen's Dividend" idea. Imagine how frustrating it would be if I were a radical environmentalist and I was constantly posting stuff like, "What good is a Citizen's Dividend if we're despoiling the planet that sustains those who might benefit?"

It's like, sure, that's a valid point, but go discuss it in a thread about environmentalism.
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