Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:10 pm**

Mine almost started this week. At the end of last year my boss took me aside and asked me what I was thinking about in regards to retirement at age 66. I told him I thought I still wanted to work for all of 2016 and would probably do it some time in 2017.

On Thursday they started a round of layoffs. Two jobs in our department were to be eliminated. The first got 20 weeks of severance pay. Thinking I could be next I have not been so excited in a long time until I talked to my boss and told him I volunteered. Unfortunately, he dashed my hopes to pieces, telling me that based on what I had told him earlier they had already decided on somebody else. Maybe next year, he said.

I always wondered what I would actually do when I retired since I don't really have many hobbies besides besides reading and riding my bike. I still don't know what I would do but the idea that getting up in the morning knowing that the only clock that is actually ticking is the one counting down towards the moment of your death is totally exhilarating. I envy those of you who are there. Mountaineer found religion but I've been there and done that and it will be something else for me but the idea is finally exciting.

(BTW, in addition to the layoffs our boss told us that the company had a plan in place for 80 percent of all software development to be done in India as soon as possible so my co-workers probably wished they were as old and ready for retirement as me).

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:17 pm**

Congrats, and I'm sure you'll find things to do. We were all worried that my dad would get bored, but has gotten more social, has cultivated an interest in things like orchids, and always seems to have a project going on around the house.

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:51 pm**

Fred wrote: Mine almost started this week. At the end of last year my boss took me aside and asked me what I was thinking about in regards to retirement at age 66. I told him I thought I still wanted to work for all of 2016 and would probably do it some time in 2017.

On Thursday they started a round of layoffs. Two jobs in our department were to be eliminated. The first got 20 weeks of severance pay. Thinking I could be next I have not been so excited in a long time until I talked to my boss and told him I volunteered. Unfortunately, he dashed my hopes to pieces, telling me that based on what I had told him earlier they had already decided on somebody else. Maybe next year, he said.

I always wondered what I would actually do when I retired since I don't really have many hobbies besides besides reading and riding my bike. I still don't know what I would do but the idea that getting up in the morning knowing that the only clock that is actually ticking is the one counting down towards the moment of your death is totally exhilarating. I envy those of you who are there. Mountaineer found religion but I've been there and done that and it will be something else for me but the idea is finally exciting.

(BTW, in addition to the layoffs our boss told us that the company had a plan in place for 80 percent of all software development to be done in India as soon as possible so my co-workers probably wished they were as old and ready for retirement as me).

Fred,

My very best wishes for what ever the future holds for you. One day at a time my internet friend, one day at a time is all one can realistically do. I do not mean don't plan for the future, do that for sure. But at the same time, live in the moment and enjoy all you are given. When I retired, I considered how I wished to grow in several areas: healthy body, mind staying sharp, emotional connections with family and friends, and spiritual connections with God. I have done better in some areas than others, but staying engaged and continuing to develop and grow keeps me going. Again, best wishes.

... M

Posted: **Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:51 pm**

Fred wrote: Mountaineer found religion but I've been there and done that and it will be something else for me but the idea is finally exciting.

Congratulations, Fred!

It sounds like you'll find plenty of exciting things to explore in your retirement. You're clearly a very intelligent person, so your thoughts regarding religion obviously have a lot of thought and experience behind them. I just hope that in your retirement, you have the chance to revisit some philosophical issues in more depth and think about what it all means to you and to the people whose lives you've touched.

Religion may be silly to you, but I think you take life and the people you love seriously. Enjoy, have fun, and I wish you the best!

Posted: **Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:10 am**

I think it's a good idea to think about what one might want to do in retirement.

A lot of people have trouble leaving work, which has heavily structured and affected their life for a long time, and being on their own without that structure.

Creating a structure for oneself seems to be a good idea, along with cultivating some new hobbies/interests, possible volunteering, etc.

Socializing is also different - it's easy to get more isolated if you don't seek out groups/activities that involve other people.

Posted: **Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:39 am**

At age 64 and having just survived a 20% layoff in my company (an oil & gas firm), I have been more or less forced to consider my vocational mortality far more than I would care to...
One of the biggest obstacles is that I don't know how well I could handle the prospect of the loss of a steady income and the very real prospect of a continually dwindling net worth. There is also the challenge to find something to do that is not only meaningful to me but does not cost more than my basic requirements. Hopefully I will have some more time to work this out but one never knows...

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:12 pm**

PP67 wrote: At age 64 and having just survived a 20% layoff in my company (an oil & gas firm), I have been more or less forced to consider my vocational mortality far more than I would care to...
One of the biggest obstacles is that I don't know how well I could handle the prospect of the loss of a steady income and the very real prospect of a continually dwindling net worth. There is also the challenge to find something to do that is not only meaningful to me but does not cost more than my basic requirements. Hopefully I will have some more time to work this out but one never knows...

According to my own and Fidelity's retirement planner there shouldn't be a continually dwindling net worth for me even with conservative assumptions, and if I trusted either my own or Fidelity's figures I might very well go ahead and retire right now. It really is hard to jump from the figures on the computer screen into the real world however. Basically, because I know neither one has sufficiently allowed for the "shit happens" factor. If I had twice what I needed I'd feel a lot better about it but I'm not that close.

My boss says that if they do layoffs next year he'll see what he can do to get me laid off with what would be 22 weeks of severance pay. Pondering it over the weekend, I do not believe this will ever happen. My boss might think he can pull it off but when it goes up to his boss and beyond I know what they are going to say - you want to lay off WHO? He says he's going to retire any way if you don't? Then let him, they'll say.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:31 pm**

Fred wrote:
PP67 wrote: At age 64 and having just survived a 20% layoff in my company (an oil & gas firm), I have been more or less forced to consider my vocational mortality far more than I would care to...
One of the biggest obstacles is that I don't know how well I could handle the prospect of the loss of a steady income and the very real prospect of a continually dwindling net worth. There is also the challenge to find something to do that is not only meaningful to me but does not cost more than my basic requirements. Hopefully I will have some more time to work this out but one never knows...
According to my own and Fidelity's retirement planner there shouldn't be a continually dwindling net worth for me even with conservative assumptions, and if I trusted either my own or Fidelity's figures I might very well go ahead and retire right now. It really is hard to jump from the figures on the computer screen into the real world however. Basically, because I know neither one has sufficiently allowed for the "shit happens" factor. If I had twice what I needed I'd feel a lot better about it but I'm not that close.

My boss says that if they do layoffs next year he'll see what he can do to get me laid off with what would be 22 weeks of severance pay. Pondering it over the weekend, I do not believe this will ever happen. My boss might think he can pull it off but when it goes up to his boss and beyond I know what they are going to say - you want to lay off WHO? He says he's going to retire any way if you don't? Then let him, they'll say.

I know what you mean about translating figures into action. My very conservative calculations show that we should have enough money if I never work again, although of course we will have to live on a moderate budget. But I still want to top up our savings some more.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:51 pm**

PP67 wrote: At age 64 and having just survived a 20% layoff in my company (an oil & gas firm), I have been more or less forced to consider my vocational mortality far more than I would care to...
One of the biggest obstacles is that I don't know how well I could handle the prospect of the loss of a steady income and the very real prospect of a continually dwindling net worth. There is also the challenge to find something to do that is not only meaningful to me but does not cost more than my basic requirements. Hopefully I will have some more time to work this out but one never knows...

PP67, according to my Schwab retirement calculator, my net worth will increase after retirement, peak out at about age 75, and only then start to decline until the end of the stochastic simulation.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:32 pm**

Libertarian666 wrote: I know what you mean about translating figures into action. My very conservative calculations show that we should have enough money if I never work again, although of course we will have to live on a moderate budget. But I still want to top up our savings some more.

Don't know about you but we already live on a fairly moderate budget - limited to about half of what we make while we've been getting ready for retirement. A lot of folks wouldn't consider it so moderate since we go on a nice trip or two every year and I'll be happy if we can keep doing that. But I have two 10+ year-old cars out in the driveway which I'm planning on reducing to one nice new car when I retire. If that's moderation it won't be so bad.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:49 pm**

Just remember if you take SocSec before your full retirement age (FRA) you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 of pay you earn. So if you plan to work a lot, don't take SocSec early.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:57 pm**

Mountaineer wrote: My very best wishes for what ever the future holds for you. One day at a time my internet friend, one day at a time is all one can realistically do. I do not mean don't plan for the future, do that for sure. But at the same time, live in the moment and enjoy all you are given. When I retired, I considered how I wished to grow in several areas: healthy body, mind staying sharp, emotional connections with family and friends, and spiritual connections with God. I have done better in some areas than others, but staying engaged and continuing to develop and grow keeps me going. Again, best wishes.

I have been a driven person all my life, sometimes my own doing, but most often not, at least as far as I can tell. And that is what I see as the coming attraction.

Sorry folks, - I'm retired.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:03 pm**

ochotona wrote: Just remember if you take SocSec before your full retirement age (FRA) you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 of pay you earn. So if you plan to work a lot, don't take SocSec early.

Already 7 months past my FRA so that is a non-issue. And don't plan on taking SS until 70 but will be playing with the figures to see how it comes out best for me and my wife (17 years younger).

Taxes ARE an issue however. I was looking at SS as a replacement for my take-home pay and it looked good until I considered that it was taxable income. And if I start taking SS at 70 that will be the same year I have to take RMD's so it's not going to be getting any easier as far as taxes go. So I guess it's true that only two things are certain in life and you will learn that well after you retire.

Posted: **Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:23 pm**

Yeah, it's tough. That's why I think lots of people need professional guidance regarding the tax aspects of retirement, or you have to make a real study of it, which I am also doing. Tax law is a mine field. I am studying for a Chartered Retirement Planning Counselor designation, but I probably won't ever use it. It's for my own personal benefit.

I'm 55, and I plan on soon making Roth 401(k) contributions and expanding my Roth space in my portfolio. From 65-70, I won't take SocSec, and while my taxes are lower, I will use my regular IRA for income, and convert some of it to Roth, so I will mitigate that RMD problem as much as possible. I plan on getting professional help, at least on a consulting basis. It's not a simple simulation problem, lots of moving parts. I don't have the right software, and I'm not going to write it or buy it. Hire a consultant.

It makes sense to keep slower-growing bonds and cash in regular IRAs, and growth assets in Roth, if you can. That will reduce the RMD problem also.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:15 am**

ochotona wrote: Just remember if you take SocSec before your full retirement age (FRA) you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 of pay you earn. So if you plan to work a lot, don't take SocSec early.

You get that back as an decrease in the reduction fraction (or whatever the official term is), starting the year after you reach FRA.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:25 am**

Libertarian666 wrote:
ochotona wrote: Just remember if you take SocSec before your full retirement age (FRA) you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 of pay you earn. So if you plan to work a lot, don't take SocSec early.
You get that back as an decrease in the reduction fraction (or whatever the official term is), starting the year after you reach FRA.

Yup, but if you die just reaching FRA, the survivor's benefits are not put back the way they would have been.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:38 am**

ochotona wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
ochotona wrote: Just remember if you take SocSec before your full retirement age (FRA) you lose $1 in benefits for every $2 of pay you earn. So if you plan to work a lot, don't take SocSec early.
You get that back as an decrease in the reduction fraction (or whatever the official term is), starting the year after you reach FRA.
Yup, but if you die just reaching FRA, the survivor's benefits are not put back the way they would have been.

I believe they are restored in the year after you would have reached FRA.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:24 am**

We're planning for retirement, and close to it as well.

The hard thing is the stuff you can't predict very well - major health issues, political changes, etc. And it feels weird to be even somewhat dependent on programs like SS/Medicare.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:16 pm**

TennPaGa wrote:

Fred... I'm confused. Your opening post said you almost retired, but didn't:

Fred wrote: Mine almost started this week.
But here you say:

Fred wrote: Sorry folks, - I'm retired.

I think he's looking forward to being able to say that soon.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:08 pm**

TennPaGa wrote:
MediumTex wrote:
TennPaGa wrote:

Fred... I'm confused. Your opening post said you almost retired, but didn't:
But here you say:

I think he's looking forward to being able to say that soon.
Ah... Right. Thanks.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. Just dreaming for now.

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