Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:24 pm**

On another popular financial forum a thread was locked before I could insert my two cents so I'm going to vent here. The OP in that thread was complaining about being seated next to an obese person while flying "coach class". The individual in the adjacent seat overlapped into the OP's seat making the flight highly uncomfortable.

Last week on a four hour flight the lady in front of me abruptly slammed her reclining seat directly into my knees. Now, I'm of average height but I found my aged "crossed" legs pinned. I had to lean forward and ask her to raise the seat so I could uncross my legs. She asked if I could just raise my tray. As soon as she leaned the seat forward and I had uncrossed my legs she once again violently slammed the seat back again into MY area.

In both of these cases a fellow passenger was encroaching into the space of another passengers. A space that is expensive and should belong to the payer for the entire flight. It's not like the airlines could not disable the recline feature of the seat.

American Airlines charges for overweight luggage. They also specify the max size of carry-on bags. Why can't they do that for passengers? Should we have to settle for a glob of adipose tissue against our body for several hours? Heaven forbid one gets seated in between to morbidly obese people. You could die there, and the airline could care less.

In the other thread some posters were commenting that the airline's were not responsible for a "pleasant" flight, but just a contractual agreement to get you from point A to point B. When it comes to the space I paid for I firmly disagree.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:34 pm**

versed1967 wrote: On another popular financial forum a thread was locked before I could insert my two cents so I'm going to vent here. The OP in that thread was complaining about being seated next to an obese person while flying "coach class". The individual in the adjacent seat overlapped into the OP's seat making the flight highly uncomfortable.

Last week on a four hour flight the lady in front of me abruptly slammed her reclining seat directly into my knees. Now, I'm of average height but I found my aged "crossed" legs pinned. I had to lean forward and ask her to raise the seat so I could uncross my legs. She asked if I could just raise my tray. As soon as she leaned the seat forward and I had uncrossed my legs she once again violently slammed the seat back again into MY area.

In both of these cases a fellow passenger was encroaching into the space of another passengers. A space that is expensive and should belong to the payer for the entire flight. It's not like the airlines could not disable the recline feature of the seat.

American Airlines charges for overweight luggage. They also specify the max size of carry-on bags. Why can't they do that for passengers? Should we have to settle for a glob of adipose tissue against our body for several hours? Heaven forbid one gets seated in between to morbidly obese people. You could die there, and the airline could care less.

In the other thread some posters were commenting that the airline's were not responsible for a "pleasant" flight, but just a contractual agreement to get you from point A to point B. When it comes to the space I paid for I firmly disagree.

While it is quite impolite to recline in such a violent fashion, I disagree that reclining should be disabled by the airlines. I find it extremely uncomfortable to have to sit bolt upright for hours on end, so I use the reclining feature whenever it is available. I do it slowly so as not to cause damage to whatever the passenger behind me has on his tray table, but I do it.

I wish we had more choice in airlines but we don't; unless we want to pay a lot more for first class, we are pretty much stuck in the back with very little space.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:47 pm**

I find it uncomfortable as well. But, I can't with good conscience recline my seat into your space if it makes you uncomfortable. It seems as if it would be akin to my putting my briefcase or backpack under your feet, so it would give me more space for my feet.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:00 pm**

I saw that original thread. They're quite heavy-handed over there.

I once sat next to an obese young man on the way back from Taiwan. My Mandarin is pretty poor, but I could tell he was requesting extra food all the time. My first clue was when the stewardness brought him a bunch of sugary snacks that other passengers didn't get.

Since he wouldn't get out of his aisle seat, I had to climb over him to get to my window seat coming back from the bathroom. He looked annoyed with me. Not my fault, buddy.

And yes, he took up a big portion of my seat.

Have you read about the guy who got water poured on him for using the Knee Defender?
http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:56 pm**

Ah, the joys of airplane travel.

IMHO, one should not be offended by someone reclining their seat the comically few inches it allows. It's not YOUR area, it's THEIR seat. Both parties should be polite about it. Products like the Knee Defender are downright sorry, and only serve passive-aggressive selfish people without the willingness to talk to others politely.

One of my real pet peeves are people who allow their carry-ons to encroach into your space. This includes people (typically pushy middle-aged business travelers) who get on the plane late and start moving other people's overhead luggage around to find room for their own near their seat.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:56 pm**

I'm generally not willing to pay for first-class airline tickets, but I would probably pay a little extra for coach-class seats with a little more space (both leg room and elbow room). Basically I want the extra space, but not really the pampering and high-end food and drinks that generally come with first-class seats.

Unfortunately, it seems like most airlines only offer full first-class seats or regular coach seats with the crappy leg room and elbow room. Nothing in between.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:06 pm**

Tortoise wrote: I'm generally not willing to pay for first-class airline tickets, but I would probably pay a little extra for coach-class seats with a little more space (both leg room and elbow room). Basically I want the extra space, but not really the pampering and high-end food and drinks that generally come with first-class seats.

Unfortunately, it seems like most airlines only offer full first-class seats or regular coach seats with the crappy leg room and elbow room. Nothing in between.

You can get more leg room on American Airlines by purchasing "MCE" (Main Cabin Extra) seating.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:12 pm**

didn't there used to be a "business class", that was the in-between option for people who fly to often, or to far to handle the cramped quarters of steerage class, and don't want to pay top dollar for first class?

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:22 pm**

l82start wrote: didn't there used to be a "business class", that was the in-between option for people who fly to often, or to far to handle the cramped quarters of steerage class, and don't want to pay top dollar for first class?

There still is business class, but almost entirely for international flights.
The exception, on AA anyway, is that there are some transcontinental ("transcon") flights, e.g., NY -> LA, that have three classes.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:07 pm**

Tyler wrote: Ah, the joys of airplane travel.

IMHO, one should not be offended by someone reclining their seat the comically few inches it allows. It's not YOUR area, it's THEIR seat. Both parties should be polite about it. Products like the Knee Defender are downright sorry, and only serve passive-aggressive selfish people without the willingness to talk to others politely.

One of my real pet peeves are people who allow their carry-ons to encroach into your space. This includes people (typically pushy middle-aged business travelers) who get on the plane late and start moving other people's overhead luggage around to find room for their own near their seat.

But those comically few inches are just enough to prevent me from comfortably crossing my legs in MY seat. I just gotta respectively disagree with you. It is THEIR seat reclining into MY area. The space I paid for. I'm not saying that if someone politely asked if they could recline their seat I would say no all the time. It just bugs me that they take it for granted that encroachment is not an issue.

At any rate the main purpose of this post was not the reclining issue, it's why airlines don't measure/weigh passengers when gross obesity is involved. It would be so easy. Then they could buy two seats, just like folks pay for over-weight baggage. They are then comfortable, the folks next to them are comfortable, we are all happy. I think Southwest Airlines has a policy regarding this.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:11 pm**

Actually, they paid for the seat, and the seat reclines. One could argue that any space that the reclining seat might take up when reclined belongs to the seat owner, not you.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:29 pm**

Weigh in at check in.
The girls won't have it.
That'd be fun to watch.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:58 pm**

A little blubber encroaching into your space is much softer than a hard seatback.

... Mountaineer

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:15 pm**

The area of reclined back is de facto the recliner's space, IMO. If they are not reclined, it's bonus room for your knees.

I don't see how you could see it any other way. To me, it's just simply mutually understood to be that way. You have a natural right to recline without obstruction.

I'd still say it's impolite to ram it.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:29 pm**

My opinion of airplane travel is unprintable. Time and circumstances permitting I would prefer almost any other mode of transportation. My last trans-continental flight was so unpleasant that had the choice been available I would have taken a stage coach.

Perhaps this is a good moment to reflect on how used to travel...
http://youtu.be/CcC9laB3UFU

and...

http://youtu.be/TN3LzbNieWI?t=2m28s

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:55 pm**

I fly a small airline from time to time (read small, single-engine aircraft) and you have to enter your weight when you purchase your ticket. And they weigh your luggage before takeoff. If the luggage is over the limit, extra charge. No published limit for passenger weight, I believe. Of course with my swimmer's build and boyish good looks I never worry!

You buy your seat with all the seat controls at your disposal. It might be uncomfortable for the person behind you, but if the seat reclines that recline volume belongs to the person in front.

My airline-travel pet peeve is the kid sitting behind you and kicking the hell out of your seat back.

Posted: **Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:15 pm**

I'm 6'4" so I totally get how uncomfortable it is when a person reclines, but the seat is made to recline, so the Airline approves apparently. It's not "your" space. It's the airlines, IMO.

I never can in good conscious recline unless no one is sitting behind me (or a small person, etc). However, I've never made a big deal out of someone reclining into me. I just suck it up and move on.

I always try to upgrade if reasonably cost effective to do so. Many airlines will allow you to "upgrade" into an exit row or stretch seating, so there are options other than first class

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:03 am**

1. seatguru.com might be helpful in planning travel as you can find out details about how wide seats are, leg room etc.

2.

WildAboutHarry wrote: My airline-travel pet peeve is the kid sitting behind you and kicking the hell out of your seat back.

+1

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:37 am**

My pet peeve is when the seat in front of me remains reclined after the announcement to return them to the upright position.
I usually speak up.

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:39 am**

Ad Orientem wrote: My opinion of airplane travel is unprintable. Time and circumstances permitting I would prefer almost any other mode of transportation. My last trans-continental flight was so unpleasant that had the choice been available I would have taken a stage coach.

Perhaps this is a good moment to reflect on how used to travel...
http://youtu.be/CcC9laB3UFU

and...

http://youtu.be/TN3LzbNieWI?t=2m28s

I believe there is still transcontinental bus travel, which is perhaps a step above stage coach but maybe not.

But of course time is usually of some concern as well, and one thing air travel is preferable for is speed, for long distances anyway.

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:10 am**

I loved traveling by bus before I got married and became a father. Cheap, great views, and free of government interference. Now of course it's sadly out of the question due to the slow speed and the relative impossibility of getting a two year-old to sit still for a few days.

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:21 am**

Libertarian666 wrote:
Tortoise wrote: I'm generally not willing to pay for first-class airline tickets, but I would probably pay a little extra for coach-class seats with a little more space (both leg room and elbow room). Basically I want the extra space, but not really the pampering and high-end food and drinks that generally come with first-class seats.

Unfortunately, it seems like most airlines only offer full first-class seats or regular coach seats with the crappy leg room and elbow room. Nothing in between.
You can get more leg room on American Airlines by purchasing "MCE" (Main Cabin Extra) seating.

United has "Economy Plus" as well. It's not exactly cheap - $50 or so per leg (flight leg, not human leg) on shorter domestic flights and up to $200 on international flights. If you fly a lot, you can buy a yearly pass. But if you fly a whole lot, access to this seating comes as a perk (it takes at least "Premier Gold" level to be able to reserve these seats).

Posted: **Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:12 am**

One trick, apart from knee-defender, is to point the cool-air blower above your seat forward and thus at the person reclined almost into your lap, and then hope they don't like it and decrease their incline...

Gyroscopic Investing

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