Gyroscopic Investing

So I posted a while back about giving up shoes and the improvements that I felt it brought me. Well, even though my feet feel better unshod, I still suffer from ankle, knee and hip pain on my right leg. The pain over the years has gone from intermittent to be a constant companion of mine now. I always attributed it to my very active lifestyle and excessive gym routine. But, it never made sense to me why it was just the right leg and not the left leg that always seemed to be in pain. I was also confused why my left leg seemed so much stronger and better balanced than my right leg despite being right handed. I can crank out one leg pistol squats on my left leg with ease but struggle to do one rep with right leg. So anyways after reading a bit and conducting a few tests on myself it seems as if I have about a quarter to a half inch leg length discrepancy (right is longer than left). This is readily apparent when looking at hips in mirror and is detectable slightly in the shoulders as well. Up until my thirties I never noticed this and had little pain. However as I get older these slight imbalances are starting to manifest themselves as aches and pains. Going to buy some insoles to raise up left foot and go back to wearing shoes again to see how I respond. I'm hopeful that this might also be the culprit for tight upper back and neck muscles as well....would be great to knock off all these aches and pains with one simple fix.

Hahaha....funny that I'm now posting my personal issues here rather than Facebook. I just find that the responses and discussions here regarding these types of topics is always more enlightening :-)

doodle wrote: it seems as if I have about a quarter to a half inch leg length discrepancy (right is longer than left). This is readily apparent when looking at hips in mirror and is detectable slightly in the shoulders as well.

we could have told you based on your posts that you lean to the left   

Ha!! Hopefully this insole adjustment leads me back toward a more balanced and centered perspective. :-)

Actually, I wouldn't say I lean right or left. I try to understand and acknowledge the full complexity of issues and this probably comes across as rather academic and liberal sometimes.

As far as right leaning libertarians and conservatives its my opinion that they sometimes are so focused on the individual that they miss how symbiotic a system it is that we live in. And if you also believe that free will is an illusion like I tend to, then it's doubly hard to fit in at a republican dinner party :-)

Apparent leg length difference could be:

1. actual leg length difference or 
2. "artifactual" from internal rotation at the hip causing foreshortening of that hip.

Have someone actually measure you side to side.

I used to have lower back discomfort and tight ilio-tibial bands which got much better after consistently using a heel lift.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to tell if this is a structural or functional situation. I'm trying to avoid expensive X-raystrying using this out. Any quick tests you can recommend?

i had some hip displacement issues resulting from a knee surgery and months of limping/compensation from being in a leg brace, this caused hip pain and when left unresolved became back pain, eventually i was shown a trick to relocate/adjust the hip by a physical therapist, that alleviated the problem until the knee healed and my gait returned to normal. i don't know if this fix would apply to your situation or help it though.

doodle wrote: As far as right leaning libertarians and conservatives its my opinion that they sometimes are so focused on the individual that they miss how symbiotic a system it is that we live in. And if you also believe that free will is an illusion like I tend to, then it's doubly hard to fit in at a republican dinner party :-)

For what it's worth, I'm quite libertarian, and I also believe that free will is an illusion.

Also, some libertarians appreciate how symbiotic and interconnected we all are more than you realize.  For example, what about Milton Friedman's famous "Nobody Knows How to Make a Pencil" lecture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ERbC7JyCfU

There are geniuses and simpletons at all points on the political spectrum, in my experience.

doodle wrote: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to tell if this is a structural or functional situation. I'm trying to avoid expensive X-raystrying using this out. Any quick tests you can recommend?

A local cobbler (or whatever they are called these days...) can quickly insert a spacer between the body of your shoe and the sole.

That would be the first thing that I would do if I wore shoes most of the day.

Walk on that for a few weeks and then re-evaluate your physical symptoms.

Benko wrote: Apparent leg length difference could be:

1. actual leg length difference or 
2. "artifactual" from internal rotation at the hip causing foreshortening of that hip.

Have someone actually measure you side to side.

I used to have lower back discomfort and tight ilio-tibial bands which got much better after consistently using a heel lift.

Apparently one way to tell is to see what leg hurts. If its #1 then the longer leg should hurt. If its #2 then the shorter one should hurt. Not sure how this played out with you.

l82start wrote: i had some hip displacement issues resulting from a knee surgery and months of limping/compensation from being in a leg brace, this caused hip pain and when left unresolved became back pain, eventually i was shown a trick to relocate/adjust the hip by a physical therapist, that alleviated the problem until the knee healed and my gait returned to normal. i don't know if this fix would apply to your situation or help it though.

What trick was that?

Mark Leavy wrote:

doodle wrote: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to tell if this is a structural or functional situation. I'm trying to avoid expensive X-raystrying using this out. Any quick tests you can recommend?

A local cobbler (or whatever they are called these days...) can quickly insert a spacer between the body of your shoe and the sole.

That would be the first thing that I would do if I wore shoes most of the day.

Walk on that for a few weeks and then re-evaluate your physical symptoms.

That's what I'm going to do I think

doodle wrote: Apparently one way to tell is to see what leg hurts. If its #1 then the longer leg should hurt. If its #2 then the shorter one should hurt. Not sure how this played out with you.

I didn't have any leg pain/symptoms.

doodle wrote:

l82start wrote: i had some hip displacement issues resulting from a knee surgery and months of limping/compensation from being in a leg brace, this caused hip pain and when left unresolved became back pain, eventually i was shown a trick to relocate/adjust the hip by a physical therapist, that alleviated the problem until the knee healed and my gait returned to normal. i don't know if this fix would apply to your situation or help it though.

What trick was that?

find a place where you can lay flat on your back between two sturdy surfaces, i found the bath tub to be the perfect length but a hallway would work as well, lay with your head and shoulders against one wall and your feet (the one with the painful hip) against the other with your knee bent, then push gently but firmly trying to straighten the leg. the distance between the two walls and having your head and shoulders against the other wall should make actually straightening it impossible, this makes the hip adjust in its socket as you push/straighten, i found that doing this untill i felt some pain relief, holding, then relaxing.. repeat a few times till the hip pain disappears, was all it took to fix the problem, until limping displaced it again (a healed knee and no limp was the permanent fix) 


keep in mind this was suggested as a fix for a specific issue (hip pain from limping) and was not a cure for the underlying problem. if you have hip displacement you should probably find out why and treat it. not a doctor disclaimer disclaimer internet advice etc etc..

doodle,

Have you considered inversion?

I have an inversion rack, and I really enjoy using it.  Placing your body in various unnatural positions in relation to gravity is a bit like swimming in that you are exposing your muscles and connective tissue to angles of resistance that they aren't used to.

I'm not necessarily talking about full inversion; even partial inversion can make you feel better.

As far as the leg issue, I know all about body asymmetry.  I have scoliosis, and while it has thankfully given me little pain and has not progressed since I was a kid, it has caused a "twisting" of my spine in addition to the curvature that you see in a 2-D image looking straight on from behind.  This twisting has caused my whole rib cage to look a little out of whack from the front (I'm pretty thin), and there is all sorts of asymmetry in the way that my muscles have grown to compensate for these design flaws in the way that my bones grew.

Some have suggested to me that a differential in leg length could have contributed to my back issues, but my pelvis looks pretty even and level in x-rays and I've never had any leg pain like doodle is describing.

The best thing, though, is that I don't have any upper body pain or discomfort, and ironically you would never know that anything was wrong with me if you saw me with a shirt on because I have always worked to maintain good posture and keep my shoulders level.

Heyyyyy, MT is back! I hope you had a good April.

doodle,

Just seeing this thread now. Much of what you describe in your original post sound familiar except that I don't have pain in my leg. For me my left leg is both stronger and longer - also by about 1/4" - and I can really see a difference in shoulder height if I am in an elevator with glass sides (you can look at your image in the corner and it gets flipped, so any difference you may have gotten used to in a normal mirror really jumps out). I do have some lower back issues but fortunately nothing too serious. The good news is that you can win bets at parties with those one-legged squats! I also can do a bunch with my left leg and really struggle to do them on the right side.

Sounds like MangoMan has a bit more faith in chiropractors than I do but certainly there are some great bone manipulators out there. I have been to some who seem like they are learning their craft on my body.

I'd be curious to hear if the lift helps. I had an issue 14-15 years ago with pretty severe foot pronation that was causing my knees to hurt when I would go hiking. I got orthodics but they didn't really lift the insides of my feet up much. A friend suggested that I put a strip of hard rubber (it's maybe 6" long, 3/4" wide and 3/16" thick) on the inside edge of my shoe & under the orthodic. That worked wonders for me. Never any knee trouble after that.

MT and Barrett,

It probably doesn't help matters that I put my body through a lot of physical punishment. When I was younger my daily gym schedule and stupidly intense exercise regimen didn't seem to cause any pain other than a bit of muscular soreness. Now that I'm in my mid thirties though and my bodies ability to heal and deal with cumulative stresses is diminished my weaknesses are starting to become obvious.

Luckily the pain is consistent and in the same spots which immediately makes me think there must be a structural issue. For all I know I might have scoliosis that was never diagnosed and only years of repeatedly squatting or benching more than I should has started to expose these defects.

I'm also a bit confused on how to diagnose these issues as there seems to be a lot more art than science to this. Pains in ones back could very well be stemming from nerves in ones hips which could be inflamed because of an imbalance in ones feet. So any doctor treating these symptoms would have to take a holistic approach.

In the meantime I think the best course forward is probably just to do as mich research as I can on my own combined with all sorts of experimentation. Ultimately everything must be considered a factor from the position that I sit in at the computer to the way I sleep or read in bed.

Whatever the case I'm going to give the orthotic a go for a couple weeks and evaluate.

Barrett,

From what I have read, if the shorter side is painful it is probably a functional problem....muscle related. If the longer side is painful it is probably a structural skeletal problem.....

No idea, just what I heard

dualstow wrote: Heyyyyy, MT is back! I hope you had a good April.

I thought about you guys the whole time.

I just needed to rest my mind. 

When, however, I saw a thread about leg length, I couldn't possibly resist getting back in the action. 

Lots of controversy about the leg length thing though. Many doctors think body can adequately compensate for structural imbalances and they play little role in causing people's aches and pains. Other doctors think imbalances play a significant role.....

I've done some reading that sleeping on hard surfaces can help realign tags and also help muscles relax since your weight is primarily borne by bony prominences unlike in a bed where weight is distributed over muscles

MediumTex wrote:

dualstow wrote: Heyyyyy, MT is back! I hope you had a good April.

I thought about you guys the whole time.

I just needed to rest my mind. 

When, however, I saw a thread about leg length, I couldn't possibly resist getting back in the action. 

At first, I thought you had given up the forum for Lent, but the dates didn't match up. And anyway, you're more likely to be Baptist or Methodist than Catholic.


Sorry, carry on with leg length.