Gyroscopic Investing

I have this problem. I would like to have someone help me manage money with a PP philosophy within the expenses and planning for retirement. Everyone I talk to tries to talk me out of PP because they are vehemently opposed to the allocation. Does anyone know of a money manager that can help me with retirement planning within the context of this philosophy. These are not easy times to be all in with PP as it is. It's even more damaging mentally when professionals try to scare the hell out of your plan.

There are these guys: http://www.americanasset.net/

I have no experience with them, just know they exist. One of the principals has participated here a few times.

Thank you. I just wrote them to contact me.

I'm amazed that there is such a firm, since there is no need for it, given the simplicity and lower expense of doing it yourself. But I guess they have found a niche.

MangoMan wrote: Although {americanasset} will get you a more pure 4x25 HBPP, at their 1% management fee I would rather buy PRPFX and only pay .71%

I think PRPFX is a good solution, but if I recall correctly portart was geting out of that exact fund and into a pure pp when he first began posting.

If I can do the PP myself anybody can, and save a lot of money on fees in the process.

If you follow HB's advice you just check it once a year so what are those people you are paying going to be doing for the other 364 days?

ns2 wrote: If I can do the PP myself anybody can, and save a lot of money on fees in the process.

If you follow HB's advice you just check it once a year so what are those people you are paying going to be doing for the other 364 days?

They have to ship the physical gold and boats are expensive especially when they keep sinking

dragoncar wrote: They have to ship the physical gold and boats are expensive especially when they keep sinking

ns2 wrote: If I can do the PP myself anybody can, and save a lot of money on fees in the process.

If you follow HB's advice you just check it once a year so what are those people you are paying going to be doing for the other 364 days?

Sometimes there is a lot of money, scattered among various personal, corporate, educational, retirement, and trust accounts, with different access levels for different family members. The 4 part HBPP is simple when there is just a couple of such titled accounts and relatively small sums (say, less that $1 million total), but beyond thAt it can be helpful to have a trusted financial advisor who understands what you're trying to do to be involved.  For example, an individual might not realize it's better to accumulate funds in a child's account or a family trust rather than the parent's account for tax or asset protection purposes.  This is the sort of thing a financial advisor can help with, and if you have substantial assets it's worth the 1% fee.


And some people are so busy working and earning they really don't have time to manage all aspects of their personal finances.  It can be risky to have an advisor handle it all, but Splitting the work with an advisor helps.

And then there are people who have learned the hard way that they or a close family member may have cognitive, medical, and other issues (like compulsion or addiction) that can ruin one's personal finances, and no matter how simple an investment strategy is, they want another set of eyes on their accounts.  (Remember the former mayor of San Diego who had to file for bankruptcy after gambling away a $2 billion fortune last year?)

I'm not saying any of this applies to portart, BTW.  Just listing examples of why a sensible person might want to pay 1% of their managed assets annually to a  financial advisor when to the rest of us us it would seem like something they could manage themselves.

MangoMan wrote:

KevinW wrote: There are these guys: http://www.americanasset.net/

I have no experience with them, just know they exist. One of the principals has participated here a few times.

Although they will get you a more pure 4x25 HBPP, at their 1% management fee I would rather buy PRPFX and only pay .71%

PRPFX is starting to look very good to me, with gold probably near the bottom and stocks still looking positive. I would do that in a New York minute before contacting that asset management company.

I will second (or third?) PRPFX. If you are looking for a financial manager, most are going to charge you some sort of fees and expenses. If you want one stop shopping with someone else handling everything why not just go with the mutual fund? No, it's not the 4x25%. But it's close enough. And the fees are probably not much more than what you will shell out if you hire a portfolio manager.

And PRPFX has been around for quite a while. This is not some sketchy new fund that may or may not be around next year.

Also, PRPFX is quite tax efficient and it's lack of long term treasuries might just be right for the current economic environment.

I am curious. Let's say you decide to sell PRPFX then change your mind to go back in. How much to you lose on the sell out/buy back in price or percent of the fund cost (assuming the price per share is the same)
?

portart wrote: I am curious. Let's say you decide to sell PRPFX then change your mind to go back in. How much to you lose on the sell out/buy back in price or percent of the fund cost (assuming the price per share is the same)
?

If I understand your question correctly, you are out the broker's fees plus any capital gains tax you may have incurred when you sold.

Ad Orientem wrote:

portart wrote: I am curious. Let's say you decide to sell PRPFX then change your mind to go back in. How much to you lose on the sell out/buy back in price or percent of the fund cost (assuming the price per share is the same)
?

If I understand your question correctly, you are out the broker's fees plus any capital gains tax you may have incurred when you sold.

You're not truly out the tax - you have just paid it now rather than later.  By buying and reselling you reset your basis price.  Although if you sell at a loss and buy back within 30 days you forgo the opportunity to claim a capital loss (not sure how this affects your basis price - seems like if you can't take the loss the original basis should still apply - anyone know this for sure?).

I guess what I am asking if there is a difference in the buy and sell price of the security going out and coming back in, not based on taxes, just in the general listed published closing fund price. For example, if PPRFX is selling for 46 a share and you sell it for that, the next day it is still 46 and you buy it back, do you get it for 46 or does it cost you more (excluded the normal trading charge you would pay to buy any stock or security)?

portart wrote: I guess what I am asking if there is a difference in the buy and sell price of the security going out and coming back in, not based on taxes, just in the general listed published closing fund price. For example, if PPRFX is selling for 46 a share and you sell it for that, the next day it is still 46 and you buy it back, do you get it for 46 or does it cost you more (excluded the normal trading charge you would pay to buy any stock or security)?

Is there a penalty for selling and then buying again soon after? No. I have seen some funds that that have a penalty if you sell within six months of buying in though. So that's a pretty reasonable question. That said, PRPFX is not a fund designed for trading. I wouldn't put in any money unless you have a long term investment horizon.

MangoMan wrote: There is only one price per day for all mutual funds: the closing NAV. No discounts, no premiums, no bid/ask spread.

If you owned the shares directly through Cuggino's company, there is a $35 account set up fee, which can be avoided by buying through Schwab or Fido. They may charge the fee again if you closed the account, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Thanks Pug. I stand corrected.

Does anyone know if PPRFX has such a penalty (buying and selling inside of six months.)?

Sounds like a very cush job if it exists.. 

Hopefully I'll have a shot next year once I get my securities license.

Good luck (best wishes) with getting the license. 

The more professionals out there who are familiar with the PP concept, the better off investors will be.