Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:04 pm**

A sobering article about the rise of police militarism in America.

Sal Culosi is dead because he bet on a football game — but it wasn’t a bookie or a loan shark who killed him. His local government killed him, ostensibly to protect him from his gambling habit.

[...]

On the night of January 24, 2006, Baucum called Culosi and arranged a time to drop by to collect his winnings. When Culosi, barefoot and clad in a T-shirt and jeans, stepped out of his house to meet the man he thought was a friend, the SWAT team began to move in. Seconds later, Det. Deval Bullock, who had been on duty since 4:00 AM and hadn’t slept in seventeen hours, fired a bullet that pierced Culosi’s heart.

Sal Culosi’s last words were to Baucum, the cop he thought was a friend: “Dude, what are you doing?”?

The fact that the Postal Service offers such training and most police departments don’t lends some credence to the theory that dog shootings are part of the larger problem of a battlefield mentality that lets police use lethal force in response to the slightest threat—usually with few consequences. “It’s an evolving phenomenon,”? says Norm Stamper, the former Seattle police chief. “It started when drug dealers began to recruit pit bulls to guard their supply. These dogs weren’t meant to attack cops. They were meant to attack other drug dealers who came to rob them. But of course they did attack cops. And yes, that’s awfully scary if one of those things latches on to your leg.”?

But Stamper says that like many aspects of modern policing, dog shootings may have had a legitimate origin, but the practice has since become a symptom of the mind-set behind a militarized police culture. “Among other things, it really shows a lack of imagination. These guys think that the only solution to a dog that’s yapping or charging is shooting and killing it. That’s all they know. It goes with this notion that police officers have to control every situation, to control all the variables. That’s an awesome responsibility, and if you take it on, you’re caving to delusion. You no longer exercise discrimination or discretion. You have to control, and the way you control is with authority, power, and force. With a dog, the easiest way to take control is to simply kill it. I mean, especially if there are no consequences for doing so.”?

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:24 pm**

Scary. Especially the part about Shaq and other celebrities going along for the ride on raids.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:54 pm**

Maybe police departments should be required to purchase licenses to shoot dogs, just like deer hunters are required to purchase licenses to shoot deer.

I love the idea of a game warden patrolling the ghetto looking for cops capping dogs without licenses.

Posted: **Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:16 pm**

Frightening and depressing beyond words.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:27 pm**

In the interest of keeping this thread here, I've decided to express my opinion solely through the use of emoticons.

I lack sufficient emoticons. Oh well.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:51 pm**

Here are some from another forum that I find appropriate:

I think we need better smilies here. One I particularly miss is:

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:01 pm**

Here is what absolutely bewilders me about these SWAT team actions, as well as these violent "warrant serving" episodes:

Why don't the cops just wait until the guy drives to work or goes to a restaurant or something like that and just arrest him as he walks from his car to a location to which he would almost certainly not be carrying a gun such as walking into work or a restaurant when he was just planning on eating.

Even the worst criminal who carries a gun in his car at all times isn't going to carry a gun into a McDonalds with him when he gets hungry. He might, but probably not. For anyone who has ever carried a gun for any amount of time, it gets bulky and heavy after a while. Cops of all people should know when people are likely not to have firearms within reach, and when they are home is probably the time they are most likely to have one within reach, and thus that should be the last location where you would want to confront them.

People normally leave their house at least once a day. Why not just keep an eye on the house and when the suspect leaves, follow him to wherever he is going and arrest him there?

In the first case covered in the story, the detective could have met the guy in a bar for a beer with two backup plainclothes officers and when the winnings changed hands he could have simply arrested him there with no violence and no SWAT team.

The only conclusion I can draw is that a lot of these police officers have a fetish for violence and enjoy creating situations that are most likely to lead to violence. A lot of police seem like community minded professional who are simply interested in maintaining order, while others seem like these steroid fueled athletes who are on edge at all times and subject to violent outbursts at any time.

I was riding my scooter with my kids the other day and we were passing through a parking lot and a police car was parked in a concealed location and the officer was clocking cars on the road in front of the parking lot. As I passed in front of his car with my kids I lightheartedly said "Are you clocking us?" and he looked at me like he would have enjoyed getting out of his car and beating me with his baton and then arresting me for obstruction of justice and putting my kids in temporary foster homes. Even with what I consider to be a healthy respect for law enforcement (I was smiling when I made my comment) I was surprised at what a jerk he was over a pretty friendly remark. He could have just smiled and gone along with the joke and my kids would have learned that cops are just people doing their jobs, but instead I could tell my kids were a little afraid of him, which made me sort of sad. You might say that I was getting in the way of him doing his job, but I would say that there are plenty of opportunities to write speeding tickets, but there aren't nearly as many opportunities to make a favorable impression on an entire family by simply smiling for two seconds in response to a friendly comment as they pass in front of your squad car. Afterward, I could tell my kids felt a little uneasy about the weird vibe the cop had given us and I explained to them that he was probably in the middle of an important investigation and we might have disrupted his concentration by riding our scooters near his car.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:23 pm**

TennPaGa wrote: Not seeing any mention of a fine amount on the ticket, and then coming across the word "misdemeanor", I was a bit taken aback. So I asked a question: "I see mention of a court date, but nothing about a fine. Will I be able to pay a fine and be done with this and not have to go to court?"

His reply: "Considering the speed you were going, you're lucky that I'm not hauling you off to jail right now."

If you were feeling saucy you could have responded with this:

TPG: "Officer, this conversation reminds me of something that I thought you might be interested in. Do you know the difference between you and a highway robber?"

COP: "No. What is it?"

TPG: "Well, highway robbers usually just take your money and let you go. They rarely threaten to kidnap you as well."

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:27 pm**

MediumTex wrote:
TennPaGa wrote: Not seeing any mention of a fine amount on the ticket, and then coming across the word "misdemeanor", I was a bit taken aback. So I asked a question: "I see mention of a court date, but nothing about a fine. Will I be able to pay a fine and be done with this and not have to go to court?"

His reply: "Considering the speed you were going, you're lucky that I'm not hauling you off to jail right now."
If you were feeling saucy you could have responded with this:

TPG: "Officer, this conversation reminds me of something that I thought you might be interested in. Do you know the difference between you and a highway robber?"

COP: "No. What is it?"

TPG: "Well, highway robbers usually just take your money and let you go. They rarely threaten to kidnap you as well."

A cardinal rule I try to abide by is never to mouth off to or otherwise piss off cops. The percentage of people doing that who come out ahead is about the same as the percentage of Hedge Funds that beat the index over any given ten year period. Maybe one day I will tell my own story that cemented the wisdom of that rule in my mind.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:59 pm**

Ad Orientem wrote:
MediumTex wrote:
TennPaGa wrote: Not seeing any mention of a fine amount on the ticket, and then coming across the word "misdemeanor", I was a bit taken aback. So I asked a question: "I see mention of a court date, but nothing about a fine. Will I be able to pay a fine and be done with this and not have to go to court?"

His reply: "Considering the speed you were going, you're lucky that I'm not hauling you off to jail right now."
If you were feeling saucy you could have responded with this:

TPG: "Officer, this conversation reminds me of something that I thought you might be interested in. Do you know the difference between you and a highway robber?"

COP: "No. What is it?"

TPG: "Well, highway robbers usually just take your money and let you go. They rarely threaten to kidnap you as well."
A cardinal rule I try to abide by is never to mouth off to or otherwise piss off cops. The percentage of people doing that who come out ahead is about the same as the percentage of Hedge Funds that beat the index over any given ten year period. Maybe one day I will tell my own story that cemented the wisdom of that rule in my mind.

I don't think that I have ever been rude to a police officer.

I treat police officers the way I treat horses. I try to assume an especially relaxed overall demeanor and try to let them know through nonverbal communication that I'm not going to hurt them in any way and that I have great respect for them.

Police, like horses, can hurt you really bad if you don't respect them.

Any time the police would ever come to a party I was hosting when I was younger I would always greet them outside if I could and tell them how happy I was they had finally arrived because I had been trying to shut the party down for a while and the people just wouldn't leave. I would then work with the police to help break up the party. It was like a public sector/private sector partnership.

***

Wait a second, I just remembered a time I wasn't nice to a police officer.

I was about 14 and a friend and I were walking across a field doing nothing wrong late at night. Apparently, the police saw us and drove their squad car into the field very slowly with all of its lights turned off and we hadn't even noticed it (I always marveled that we hadn't seen it coming up behind us).

Suddenly, every light on the police car came on and the driver hit the gas hard. I don't know how far behind us it was, but it felt like they were inches away, which is part of the reason we ran. So we ran for a little bit because, honestly, when a car seems to be trying to run you down running is almost instinctive. So we both stopped after running perhaps 30 yards or so, and while we were just standing there the two police officers exited their vehicle and took us both down.

At the time I probably weighed 120 pounds or so and the officer handling me probably weighed about 220 or so. After taking me down he started going through my pockets quickly asking me where my weapons were. This all happened very quickly. Then he grabbed me by my shirt and as he was throwing me across the hood of the car he tore my shirt off completely and I actually slid across the hood and fell to the ground on the other side of the car. He came around and picked me up again and roughly cuffed me and threw me into the backseat of the car.

My buddy was apparently getting similar treatment except he still had a shirt when they put him in the car next to me. This is where I said the rude thing.

I said "Don't we have any rights?" in a tone of voice that probably wasn't completely respectful.

I was assured that we did not and told to shut the fuck up.

When we got to the police station they brought us into a room and there was a plain clothes officer in a Hawaiian shirt and he looked at us like we were a couple of turds that someone had brought in from the toilet. He asked me what had happened to my shirt and I told him to ask the guy driving the police car.

So he sat us down and said "So, you want to tell me what happened?"

"Well," I said "those police officers tried to run us down and we ran because we didn't initially even realize it was the police. When we realized it was the police they got out of the car and threw us down and when the officer pulled me up off the ground and threw me across the hood he tore my shirt off and then they brought us here."

"Look," he said, "we'll stay here all night if we have to, but I want to know what you did."

"I just told you what we did."

"So they just chased you for no reason?"

"I don't know. You should ask them I guess. I don't know why they chased us."

"Hmm, okay, let's see if your story changes any after you sit in a cell for a while." He then put me in a holding cell while he talked to my buddy. After a while he brought me out and put my buddy in another holding cell. "So, you ready to tell me anything?" he said.

"I would like to know what you think we did and I would like to go home."

"Well, what's more likely tonight is that you are going to the county jail."

"But why?"

"Like I said, I can stay here all night if I need to."

So it went on like this for a while and I finally asked if the officer would give me a hint about what he thought we might have done, but he never would. After about four hours he said if we weren't going to talk he was going to call our parents and see if they could get us to talk. When he called them, though, he was very polite and acted like the police had just picked us up as a courtesy and that we were safe and they could come pick us up. When our parents got there he acted like a camp counselor who was just happy that we were safe. I think that he said it was a warm night and I had taken off my shirt because I was hot and had apparently misplaced it.

It was a very bizarre experience, but I was probably a bit rude with that comment about my rights.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:21 pm**

I'm fairly convinced that cops hear any sentence involving the word "rights" as either "I'd like a beating," or "Please, Sir, would you taser me vigorously?"

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:22 pm**

Wow, I had an overzealous cop that was rude to me when I was in a car accident as a kid, but nothing like MT's story above. Nothing physical. Basically, my eyes were red from allergies so he assumed I was on something, and I was so nervous, I failed the touch your nose and walk in a straight line test. He was screaming at me, so I yelled back, "Just give me a breathalyzer!" His partner, an elderly cop, agreed, and after that everybody calmed down. Ah, the innocent early 80's.

I saw a similar article to the OP. It's based on the same upcoming book.
Rise of the Warrior Cop
Is it time to reconsider the militarization of American policing?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 19904.html
It begins with a juicy but ultimately tragic story that I don't think is in the Salon article:

On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol....

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:28 pm**

The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.

Hey, the guy fought back and survived against 12 cops? I can't believe he lived through that. A shame he hanged himself rather than gone through the trial. The results would have been extremely enlightening.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:40 am**

MediumTex wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote:
MediumTex wrote: If you were feeling saucy you could have responded with this:

TPG: "Officer, this conversation reminds me of something that I thought you might be interested in. Do you know the difference between you and a highway robber?"

COP: "No. What is it?"

TPG: "Well, highway robbers usually just take your money and let you go. They rarely threaten to kidnap you as well."
A cardinal rule I try to abide by is never to mouth off to or otherwise piss off cops. The percentage of people doing that who come out ahead is about the same as the percentage of Hedge Funds that beat the index over any given ten year period. Maybe one day I will tell my own story that cemented the wisdom of that rule in my mind.
I don't think that I have ever been rude to a police officer.

I treat police officers the way I treat horses. I try to assume an especially relaxed overall demeanor and try to let them know through nonverbal communication that I'm not going to hurt them in any way and that I have great respect for them.

Police, like horses, can hurt you really bad if you don't respect them.

Any time the police would ever come to a party I was hosting when I was younger I would always greet them outside if I could and tell them how happy I was they had finally arrived because I had been trying to shut the party down for a while and the people just wouldn't leave. I would then work with the police to help break up the party. It was like a public sector/private sector partnership.

***

Wait a second, I just remembered a time I wasn't nice to a police officer.

I was about 14 and a friend and I were walking across a field doing nothing wrong late at night. Apparently, the police saw us and drove their squad car into the field very slowly with all of its lights turned off and we hadn't even noticed it (I always marveled that we hadn't seen it coming up behind us).

Suddenly, every light on the police car came on and the driver hit the gas hard. I don't know how far behind us it was, but it felt like they were inches away, which is part of the reason we ran. So we ran for a little bit because, honestly, when a car seems to be trying to run you down running is almost instinctive. So we both stopped after running perhaps 30 yards or so, and while we were just standing there the two police officers exited their vehicle and took us both down.

At the time I probably weighed 120 pounds or so and the officer handling me probably weighed about 220 or so. After taking me down he started going through my pockets quickly asking me where my weapons were. This all happened very quickly. Then he grabbed me by my shirt and as he was throwing me across the hood of the car he tore my shirt off completely and I actually slid across the hood and fell to the ground on the other side of the car. He came around and picked me up again and roughly cuffed me and threw me into the backseat of the car.

My buddy was apparently getting similar treatment except he still had a shirt when they put him in the car next to me. This is where I said the rude thing.

I said "Don't we have any rights?" in a tone of voice that probably wasn't completely respectful.

I was assured that we did not and told to shut the fuck up.

When we got to the police station they brought us into a room and there was a plain clothes officer in a Hawaiian shirt and he looked at us like we were a couple of turds that someone had brought in from the toilet. He asked me what had happened to my shirt and I told him to ask the guy driving the police car.

So he sat us down and said "So, you want to tell me what happened?"

"Well," I said "those police officers tried to run us down and we ran because we didn't initially even realize it was the police. When we realized it was the police they got out of the car and threw us down and when the officer pulled me up off the ground and threw me across the hood he tore my shirt off and then they brought us here."

"Look," he said, "we'll stay here all night if we have to, but I want to know what you did."

"I just told you what we did."

"So they just chased you for no reason?"

"I don't know. You should ask them I guess. I don't know why they chased us."

"Hmm, okay, let's see if your story changes any after you sit in a cell for a while." He then put me in a holding cell while he talked to my buddy. After a while he brought me out and put my buddy in another holding cell. "So, you ready to tell me anything?" he said.

"I would like to know what you think we did and I would like to go home."

"Well, what's more likely tonight is that you are going to the county jail."

"But why?"

"Like I said, I can stay here all night if I need to."

So it went on like this for a while and I finally asked if the officer would give me a hint about what he thought we might have done, but he never would. After about four hours he said if we weren't going to talk he was going to call our parents and see if they could get us to talk. When he called them, though, he was very polite and acted like the police had just picked us up as a courtesy and that we were safe and they could come pick us up. When our parents got there he acted like a camp counselor who was just happy that we were safe. I think that he said it was a warm night and I had taken off my shirt because I was hot and had apparently misplaced it.

It was a very bizarre experience, but I was probably a bit rude with that comment about my rights.

MT, your story is eerily reminiscent of Kafka's The Trial!

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:12 am**

MediumTex wrote: Here is what absolutely bewilders me about these SWAT team actions, as well as these violent "warrant serving" episodes:

Why don't the cops just wait until the guy drives to work or goes to a restaurant or something like that and just arrest him as he walks from his car to a location to which he would almost certainly not be carrying a gun such as walking into work or a restaurant when he was just planning on eating.

Even the worst criminal who carries a gun in his car at all times isn't going to carry a gun into a McDonalds with him when he gets hungry. He might, but probably not. For anyone who has ever carried a gun for any amount of time, it gets bulky and heavy after a while. Cops of all people should know when people are likely not to have firearms within reach, and when they are home is probably the time they are most likely to have one within reach, and thus that should be the last location where you would want to confront them.

People normally leave their house at least once a day. Why not just keep an eye on the house and when the suspect leaves, follow him to wherever he is going and arrest him there?

In the first case covered in the story, the detective could have met the guy in a bar for a beer with two backup plainclothes officers and when the winnings changed hands he could have simply arrested him there with no violence and no SWAT team.

Classic case was the Waco Branch Dividians seige. Koresh went to town everyday. Even Barney Fife could have apprehended him. It was just not enough fun for the feds to arrest him there. Four dead agents and 76 dead Dividians later the fire was put out.

Here is an interesting event from last week:

http://www.infowars.com/florida-nurse-t ... -marshals/

With the number of armed citizens in many parts of the country it's amazing more citizens don't die from these erroneous police actions.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:45 am**

versed1967 wrote: With the number of armed citizens in many parts of the country it's amazing more citizens don't die from these erroneous police actions.

It's definitely disturbing. I could easily see how an armed homeowner who sees someone bust through the front door would shoot first and ask questions later--presumably after he or she was already dead from a hail of bullets from a SWAT team.

My experience (from more than a few speeding tickets) with police has been about 80% positive. A few grumpy and/or power trippy types, but overall respectful and courteous. However(to MT's point), there is a steroid-freak type that is attracted to the rush of violence. Unfortunately, the best place for those types is a SWAT unit because they are likely to see some type of violent action in that environment.

The problem with these types of stories is that people are programmed to defer authority under certain circumstances. That can have deadly consequences if someone wants to impersonate a police officer and harm you. See the St. Valentine's Day Massacre for a good example of that. Hopefully someone will successfully sue and swing the balance of power back to the people.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:41 pm**

MediumTex wrote: I was about 14 and a friend and I were walking across a field doing nothing wrong late at night. Apparently, the police saw us and drove their squad car into the field very slowly with all of its lights turned off and we hadn't even noticed it (I always marveled that we hadn't seen it coming up behind us).

...long scary story followed....

MT what a horrible story!!! Did that have anything to do with your career decision, I wonder?

Just the experience of getting caught at obvious speed traps plus the way that police officers freely break traffic laws (safety, my ***), has made me think of the police as predators above all else. If something like this had happened to me, I'd be even more inclined in that direction. With probably a touch of PTSD to boot. That is a pretty frightening experience for a 14 year old to handle.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:28 pm**

WiseOne wrote:
MediumTex wrote: I was about 14 and a friend and I were walking across a field doing nothing wrong late at night. Apparently, the police saw us and drove their squad car into the field very slowly with all of its lights turned off and we hadn't even noticed it (I always marveled that we hadn't seen it coming up behind us).

...long scary story followed....
MT what a horrible story!!! Did that have anything to do with your career decision, I wonder?

Just the experience of getting caught at obvious speed traps plus the way that police officers freely break traffic laws (safety, my ***), has made me think of the police as predators above all else. If something like this had happened to me, I'd be even more inclined in that direction. With probably a touch of PTSD to boot. That is a pretty frightening experience for a 14 year old to handle.

No doubt. 14 years old is a pretty tender age to feel the power of the state come down on you like that.

The sad thing is that my experience actually wasn't that bad compared to other experiences that friends of mine had, including situations where the driver of a car was arrested for having a pocketknife in his trunk, the car was impounded and the passengers (some of whom were in junior high) were just left on the side of the road (this was before cell phones). Another friend got hit in the face by a flashlight for not having a good attitude during a traffic stop.

Here's a really good one: the ex-husband of a relative of mine was a police officer back in the 1960s and he was on the "shotgun squad", which consisted of police officers who would hide in the back of convenience stores with a loaded shotgun and wait for it to be robbed. One night a suspicious looking guy came in and what happened next was never entirely clear, but the guy ended up dead from a shotgun blast and there was never really any evidence that he had any intent or desire to rob the store. Apparently, there were a few tense days, but my relative's ex-husband was able to avoid any really bad consequences (after the store clerk was apparently coached a bit about what had happened), but I think he was taken off of the shotgun squad after that. I think they had a rule for the shotgun squad that was similar to the "one bite rule" for dogs.

There are certainly plenty of good police officers out there, but there are plenty of bad ones as well. Ironically, I think that this surveillance society infrastructure that we have built probably provides some protection against police misconduct that in the past never would have been reported (or wouldn't have been believed if it had been reported).

If you go back and look at the Rodney King beating video, note how the police officers had the overall look and bearing of people who had done that sort of thing before. None of them really looked surprised at what was happening. They were just sort of standing around waiting for their next turn with the baton. They looked to me like a group of deep sea fishermen trying to subdue a big fish that one of them had just reeled in.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:02 pm**

What good is all the surveillance when we can get the cops beating a man to death on multiple cell phone cameras and they can 1.) confiscate all the evidence immediately and arrest anyone who refuses and 2.) face no consequences beyond a paid vacation even once its acknowledged that there was wrong doing! If you can have multiple eye witnesses plus video evidence of a violent crime or murder and get no conviction then having a "surveillance society" focused on the cops is pointless.

The reason police behavior is so bad is that there are no consequences. They don't just think they're above the law, the ARE above the law in almost every instance I've ever heard of. Even when they do get a conviction the sentence is miniscule. Until LEO's are held to the same standards of behavior with respect to the law as the rest of us, I expect that the issues we face are only going to get worse.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:01 pm**

Here's a good one.

Anyone familiar with the Happy-Time Smiles Law?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... g-incident

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:24 pm**

AdamA wrote: Here's a good one.

Anyone familiar with the Happy-Time Smiles Law?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... g-incident

You Rick Rolled us.

That's just a clip from an episode of Reno 911!

***

Seriously, though, by the logic of that arrest it would never be permitted to look at or talk to a police officer while he was on duty because it could always theoretically distract him from his duties.

Furthermore, if I walk by a police car and a dog barks at me and I casually make a "woof woof" sound back at him, who started that, me or the dog?

The cop speaking from the midpoint on of that video was so jacked up it was scary. He sounded like someone on amphetamines--tense, paranoid, jerky and aggressive. You hear the guy in the back seat going "Come on man. I said 'woof woof' as I walked by. Come on."

To apply the same logic that the police used in this video, when I passed in front of a police car with my kids on our scooters the other day while he was clocking traffic and I joked with him about whether he was clocking us on our scooters, he could have stepped out of his car, told me to halt, called in backup, wrestled me to the ground, cuffed me, searched me, arrested me for interfering with a police officer in the performance of his duties and resisting arrest, impounded our scooters and placed my kids in temporary foster homes. That's sort of scary to think about, but the logic is exactly the same--a good natured joke or comment to a jacked up cop is misinterpreted and results in a ridiculous arrest and trip to jail for basically nothing.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:42 pm**

MediumTex wrote: To apply the same logic that the police used in this video, when I passed in front of a police car with my kids on our scooters the other day while he was clocking traffic and I joked with him about whether he was clocking us on our scooters, he could have stepped out of his car, told me to halt, called in backup, wrestled me to the ground, cuffed me, searched me, arrested me for interfering with a police officer in the performance of his duties and resisting arrest, impounded our scooters and placed my kids in temporary foster homes. That's sort of scary to think about, but the logic is exactly the same--a good natured joke or comment to a jacked up cop is misinterpreted and results in a ridiculous arrest and trip to jail for basically nothing.

On the plus side, arresting a lawyer for nonsense and kidnapping his children is a great example of making a critical error in the victim selection process. The ensuing legal case would render you able to be a pro bono lawyer for the rest of your life.

I hope.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:02 pm**

Pointedstick wrote:
MediumTex wrote: To apply the same logic that the police used in this video, when I passed in front of a police car with my kids on our scooters the other day while he was clocking traffic and I joked with him about whether he was clocking us on our scooters, he could have stepped out of his car, told me to halt, called in backup, wrestled me to the ground, cuffed me, searched me, arrested me for interfering with a police officer in the performance of his duties and resisting arrest, impounded our scooters and placed my kids in temporary foster homes. That's sort of scary to think about, but the logic is exactly the same--a good natured joke or comment to a jacked up cop is misinterpreted and results in a ridiculous arrest and trip to jail for basically nothing.
On the plus side, arresting a lawyer for nonsense and kidnapping his children is a great example of making a critical error in the victim selection process. The ensuing legal case would render you able to be a pro bono lawyer for the rest of your life.

I hope.

Oh sure. The reality is that there is a whole different set of rules applicable to a 21 year old black dude at 3:00am who is not especially quick thinking or articulate than to a 42 year old white dude at 1:00 in the afternoon who is ready to have a complex and logically coherent discussion at any time.

I know that.

I also know that I wouldn't have walked by a police car that had its lights on at 3:00am, I wouldn't have barked at the dog, I wouldn't have made it seem like I might have been high, and I wouldn't have been sketchy about who I was, where I lived, what I did, etc. It's probably safe to say that if it had been me there is an almost 100% chance that I wouldn't have been arrested.

But still, the guy in the video was pretty cool about the whole thing and it just didn't seem appropriate to arrest him for making a "woof woof" sound as he walked by the police car.

One of the finest and most useful rules for living that I have worked to fully internalize into my life is that it is almost always better to avoid a battle than to win a battle once it has started. This rule applies to virtually any conflict with another person or group of people, and it is what would have made me want to carefully avoid those jacked up cops in the video in the first place.

It really is a rare problem with another person or group that is so difficult that it can ONLY be solved through mental or physical conflict (and simply avoiding conflict-oriented situations with others is a perfectly valid method of problem solving). It's sort of like the whole coercion/persuasion thing. Conflict is coercion, while basically every other method of resolving problems is based upon different forms of persuasion--i.e., appealing to reason rather than to fear. It doesn't work all of the time, but it works often enough for me to keep doing it.

As I look back on the battles in my life I have been involved in, I see how most of them could have easily been avoided with only a little bit of effort. Simply presenting an opponent with the appearance of strength and a clear path to safety that moves away from the conflict will resolve most conflicts. The only thing you need to make sure to include when the conflict involves another human is an opportunity to save face as he moves to safety.

The rule above is part of what makes me so dismissive of any military victories that generals or politicians take credit for. To me, the mere existence of armed conflict in the first place is overwhelming evidence that the politicians failed. Winning a war that wasn't necessary in the first place reminds of the time my older son stuck a hanger down my younger son's throat and when he started to choke on it my older son pulled it out. However, this is the way that my older son would tell the story: "Well, my little brother was choking on a hanger, and I just happened to be there, so I pulled it out of his throat. I pretty much saved his life." I think that he would make an outstanding wartime politician.

The truth about many great people is that their greatness manifests in the form of an absence of problems in the first place, NOT a superhuman ability to solve incredibly difficult problems when they arise.

The best doctor in the world is unknown because none of his patients are ever sick.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:03 pm**

So true, MT. I find that the more I succeed in doing the same, the smoother my life has become.

And in the spirit of avoiding conflict with the police, this is helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:29 pm**

MediumTex wrote: One of the finest and most useful rules for living that I have worked to fully internalize into my life is that it is almost always better to avoid a battle than to win a battle once it has started.

So true.

Gyroscopic Investing

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