Gyroscopic Investing

As someone who learned English as a second language I'm quite puzzled with one particular grammar quirk I see everywhere in the US - misuse of apostrophe. Interestingly, education level almost does not matter as I've seen well-educated people writing something like "too many martini's" or "the Johnson's will join us" or "the team meet's at 5pm".

Is this because some native speakers tend to use intuition rather than grammar rules in certain scenarios?

foglifter wrote: As someone who learned English as a second language I'm quite puzzled with one particular grammar quirk I see everywhere in the US - misuse of apostrophe. Interestingly, education level almost does not matter as I've seen well-educated people writing something like "too many martini's" or "the Johnson's will join us" or "the team meet's at 5pm".

Is this because some native speakers tend to use intuition rather than grammar rules in certain scenarios?

I think it's because the apostrophe can be used in a few different ways, so even native speakers get confused.

The main two ways:

1.  Possessive:  The dog that belong to Steve = Steve's dog.

2.  Omitted letters:  It is = it's

Where this gets a little confusing is when you're trying to say that "it" possesses something.

The dog's collar

It = the dog.

You don't say "it's collar" (because that would mean "it is collar), you say "its collar."

So native speakers with usually say this properly, but occasionally screw up the apostrophe.

 

I see this a lot too.

Certain words that also seem to be constantly in the process of being misused are "lose"/"loose", and "compliment"/"complement."

One of my pet peeves is the use of "incentivize", when we already have the perfectly good word "incite"!

Ah, the wonders of the American public education system. Now there's a topic I could see generating a dozen or more pages for a thread.

I agree about apostrophes, they are frequently misused. A lot of people also use commas in bizarre places.

However my pet peeve is when people (at least around here... American Midwest) leave out the verb "to be".  For example, they'll say something that is broken "needs fixed" instead of "needs to be fixed".  Drives me nuts!

flyingpylon wrote: However my pet peeve is when people (at least around here... American Midwest) leave out the verb "to be".  For example, they'll say something that is broken "needs fixed" instead of "needs to be fixed".  Drives me nuts!

What's funny about this is that there's a grammatically-sound construction that, like the incorrect version, also requires fewer words: "needs fixing."

My favorite one is how some people from the pacific northwest pronounce "milk" and "pillow" like "melk" and "pellow."

foglifter, English is your second language? Your English is amazing!

I don't have the basic confusion about apostrophes listed at that site, but I swear that when I was growing up, the textbooks told us to write 8's, p's, q's and R's. Apparently, that last one is wrong, and it's taken me a long time to get used to writing VCRs or the 80s without an apostrophe.

Xan wrote: One of my pet peeves is the use of "incentivize", when we already have the perfectly good word "incite"!

I think this is one of those funny things that becomes acceptable as time marches on. I don't like the word either, but I'm starting to catch myself using it. The next generation won't remember a world without it.
Did you know that people used to protest the use of the word "sophisticated" in contexts like "sophisticated missile system"? Sounds perfectly natural, right? God knows what it used to mean. I don't remember.

Two of my big pet peeves-
1) Using literally to mean figuratively. "I literally laughed my ass off." (No, I don't think you did).
Americans are starting to say lit-tra-ly in a kind of fake British way that sounds neither British nor American, by the way.
2) Using "I" all the time instead of "me".  Satellite radio ad: "Christian mingle is (something) that God (used) to bring my wife and I together." ugh

dualstow wrote: foglifter, English is your second language? Your English is amazing!

Thanks dualstow. I just love English. But will keep this as a topic for another thread. 

dualstow wrote: I don't have the basic confusion about apostrophes listed at that site, but I swear that when I was growing up, the textbooks told us to write 8's, p's, q's and R's. Apparently, that last one is wrong, and it's taken me a long time to get used to writing VCRs or the 80s without an apostrophe.

Xan wrote: One of my pet peeves is the use of "incentivize", when we already have the perfectly good word "incite"!

I think this is one of those funny things that becomes acceptable as time marches on. I don't like the word either, but I'm starting to catch myself using it. The next generation won't remember a world without it.
Did you know that people used to protest the use of the word "sophisticated" in contexts like "sophisticated missile system"? Sounds perfectly natural, right? God knows what it used to mean. I don't remember.

Two of my big pet peeves-
1) Using literally to mean figuratively. "I literally laughed my ass off." (No, I don't think you did).
Americans are starting to say lit-tra-ly in a kind of fake British way that sounds neither British nor American, by the way.
2) Using "I" all the time instead of "me".  Satellite radio ad: "Christian mingle is (something) that God (used) to bring my wife and I together." ugh

Oh well, I guess some words just sound and look cool. All these "incentivize" and "utilize" surely make someone look smarter.

I hate to admit but I started using "google" as a verb. I'm trying to stop myself and replace it with "to look something up", but sometimes I fail. 

I personally hate "gift" as a verb instead of "give," although I understand some rationale for utilizing it.  For example:  "He gifted me $50."

What I've noticed is that the most brilliant people I know who speak English as their first language tend to be pretty meticulous with their grammar, punctuation, and spelling--even if their primary brilliance is in a STEM field.

Sloppiness in language is often a symptom of sloppiness in thought.

When I'm reading something and I encounter an error in grammar or punctuation, it actually puts me on the defensive and makes me more skeptical of what I'm reading. And I consider my defensive reaction to be justified since the error may be evidence of sloppiness in thought.

Almost as bad as apostrophe abuse is the misuse of (or lack of) hyphens.

An old example is the merger of two newspapers, The News and The Free Press.  After the merger, it became The News-Free Press.

From The Oatmeal: "How To Use An Apostrophe."



I'll admit to some laziness when it comes to proper grammar, especially on a forum.  I also overuse commas, but I like them, they are great.

dragoncar wrote:I personally hate "gift" as a verb instead of "give," although I understand some rationale for utilizing it.  For example:  "He gifted me $50."

Another bad one is that "invite" seems to be completely replacing "invitation".  It's okay when one is being folksy, but I see this now all the time in all kinds of situations.

MediumTex wrote: I see this a lot too.

Certain words that also seem to be constantly in the process of being misused are "lose"/"loose", and "compliment"/"complement."

Yes!  I never realized how common mixing up lose and loose is until I started reading internet forums.  I really hate it when people use "I" instead of "me" when it's the object of a preposition.  For example, "between you and I" should be "between you and me."  Also, people often incorrectly use "was" instead of "were."  It is incorrect to say, "If I was a panda bear, I'd enjoy eating bamboo."  You need to use the past subjunctive "were."  "If I were a panda bear, I'd enjoy eating bamboo."

And here I thought you were referring to  Frank Zappa's album!  One of the songs being "Don't Eat the Yellow Snow"

LOL. I miss Frank.
___
@Coffee: why is there a comma before Better in your latest thread?
...as long as we're all nitpicking.

foglifter wrote: As someone who learned English as a second language I'm quite puzzled with one particular grammar quirk I see everywhere in the US - misuse of apostrophe. Interestingly, education level almost does not matter as I've seen well-educated people writing something like "too many martini's" or "the Johnson's will join us" or "the team meet's at 5pm".

Is this because some native speakers tend to use intuition rather than grammar rules in certain scenarios?

Some of this is generated by autocorrect programs on tablets and phones.  When fingers are flying across the keyboard, it's crazy what autocorrect will insist on substituting. Mine defaults to the apostrophe in I-t-s (and as you can see, automatically capitalizes "I" when it thinks it stands alone).  If the sender notices the error, often the finger has reflexively hit the "send"  button, leaving no opportunity to fix it.  And sometimes I've been known to send it anyway, errors and all, especially when the trouble it takes to fix the autocorrect version involves too many steps, and I swallow my pride in knowing grammar and spelling.

rhymenocerous wrote: Also, people often incorrectly use "was" instead of "were."  It is incorrect to say, "If I was a panda bear, I'd enjoy eating bamboo."  You need to use the past subjunctive "were."  "If I were a panda bear, I'd enjoy eating bamboo."

I do this.  How can I know when to use one or the other?  I don't understand the limiting principle.

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Okay, I read up on it a little more and apparently if you are using a hypothetical reference it's "were" and if it's not hypothetical it's "was" (more or less).

Is that a good rule of thumb?

***

BTW, rhymenocerous has been very helpful to me and Craig in other ways when it comes to language-related matters.  It was through some kind introductions that he made for us that the PP book happened.  Without rhymenocerous, there would be no Rowland/Lawson PP book.  I really can't thank him enough for his role in bringing the book to fruition (even if he were to say that it was no big deal).

dualstow wrote:@Coffee: why is there a comma before Better in your latest thread?

That bothered me too!