Gyroscopic Investing

Sweet!  Mine ranks dead last! 

http://freedominthe50states.org/

Second to last. Who the hell beat us?!

Edit: Oh, of course it was the state I moved from.

Last. But it's for my own good!

Oklahoma ahead of Texas?

Please.

How can a state with a state income tax rank ahead of a neighboring state without a state income tax when the states are otherwise similar?

Saying Oklahoma is freer that Texas is like saying Canada is freer than the U.S.  Even if it were true, it just wouldn't sound right.

MediumTex wrote: Oklahoma ahead of Texas?

Please.

How can a state with a state income tax rank ahead of a neighboring state without a state income tax when the states are otherwise similar?

Saying Oklahoma is freer that Texas is like saying Canada is freer than the U.S.  Even if it were true, it just wouldn't sound right.

Happily enough, it has a tool to allow you to weight things yourself, so you can make a ranking with personal taxes being more important.

Personally, I find these ratings to be significantly thrown off by the (in my mind) overweighting of fiscal issues.  Things like "state debt per head" and "percentage of the population working for the government" don't really seem to impact freedom directly, and their presence opens this otherwise commendable effort to obvious criticism by liberals that it's just some kind of measure of anti-liberalism, as Slate did in a recent article when I assume one of their staffers first learned about this now several year-old effort. 

TennPaGa wrote: I'm curious... How important is a state's freedom ranking as a factor for where you have chosen to live relative to other factors like family, education, and economic considerations?

When I moved to my current location, laws and freedom weren't really on my mind. But the information in these reports has been very useful in helping me plan my next move.

TIL that new jersey has a happy hour ban 

Utah the 10th freest state?  Aren't their liquor laws ridiculous?  State-run stores and all that?

Not that alcohol regulation is the best measure of freedom, but I think one person's inconvenience is another person's inexcusible offense... measuring freedom has to be somewhat difficult when different people have different ideas of what freedoms they think are most important.

moda0306 wrote: Utah the 10th freest state?  Aren't their liquor laws ridiculous?  State-run stores and all that?

Not that alcohol regulation is the best measure of freedom, but I think one person's inconvenience is another person's inexcusible offense... measuring freedom has to be somewhat difficult when different people have different ideas of what freedoms they think are most important.

A lot of the most "free" states struck me as undesirable places to live. Personally, I love cities and I guess those require some lib'rals to get really cooking.

moda0306 wrote: Utah the 10th freest state?  Aren't their liquor laws ridiculous?  State-run stores and all that?

Not that alcohol regulation is the best measure of freedom, but I think one person's inconvenience is another person's inexcusible offense... measuring freedom has to be somewhat difficult when different people have different ideas of what freedoms they think are most important.

That's why I appreciate that the site lets you determine for yourself what's important to you, via the "personalize" button. Personally I don't care about alcohol laws since I don't drink, so those are a non-factor to me in determining what's a desirable place to live.

I can't reall find a common thread from a free/unfree or right/left perspective in terms of where I'd want to live.  I love southern California coast (uh oh, here comes the lambasting), Wyoming/Utah scenery is awesome, Minnesota... well lots of stuff, New York City is an amazing place, IMO, a lot of the rust belt cites and some eastern cities are pure trash, though, I can't stand the dirty South (from what I've experienced of it... limited).

In the end, freedom from "oppression" from government is only one modest-sized factor in where people choose to live.  The "oppression" of the heat, humidity, and other ambigious (not direct government oppression) aspects of rural Mississippi to me would be far worse than the direct "oppression" of living in the concrete jungle of NYC, not being able to drive my lifted truck through the mud at a moments notice.

Freedom is only one part of the recipe to happiness.  Drop me in the middle of the desert or ocean and I could give a f*ck less about freedom.

You raise an interesting and very valid set of points, moda. I agree that freedom is only one component of happiness, but I think different people have different needs for freedom in the achievement of their happiness. Personally, I know that my need for freedom is relatively elevated. I'm not as happy when I have less; that's just who I am. My wife by contrast, appreciates freedom but has higher needs for security and comfort. Negotiating this balance has been rewarding as each of us learns to appreciate another way of looking at life and helps the other with their own needs.

Ad Orientem wrote: Second to last. Who the hell beat us?!

Edit: Oh, of course it was the state I moved from.

Yeah, #50 was the state I moved from too back when I moved to state #49, then I eventually moved back to state #50 again.    I must be a glutton for punishment.

Nice website.  My home state (New Hampshire) is 4th, but I'm going to be leaving for Texas next year for tax reasons.

I love most things about New Hampshire, but I hate the idiotic 8.5% business tax here.  Texas has 0% income tax, 0% business tax (on sole proprietorships like mine), and a low sales tax.  New Hampshire has 0% income tax and 0% sales tax, but I don't buy much because I'm a saver.  So, I'm looking at 8.5% overall taxes in New Hampshire versus ~1.25% overall taxes in Texas. 

Texas wins, so I'm outta here and I'm taking my small business with me.

edsanville wrote: Nice website.  My home state (New Hampshire) is 4th, but I'm going to be leaving for Texas next year for tax reasons.

I love most things about New Hampshire, but I hate the idiotic 8.5% business tax here.  Texas has 0% income tax, 0% business tax (on sole proprietorships like mine), and a low sales tax.  New Hampshire has 0% income tax and 0% sales tax, but I don't buy much because I'm a saver.  So, I'm looking at 8.5% overall taxes in New Hampshire versus ~1.25% overall taxes in Texas. 

Texas wins, so I'm outta here and I'm taking my small business with me.

How do the property taxes and property values compare?  I pay 2.53% in my neighborhood (with a 20% homestead exemption) in Houston.

hoost wrote: How do the property taxes and property values compare?  I pay 2.53% in my neighborhood (with a 20% homestead exemption) in Houston.

Here's a great website I found a while back that attempts to answer that question:
http://www.creditsesame.com/blog/proper ... -07072011/

edsanville wrote: Nice website.  My home state (New Hampshire) is 4th, but I'm going to be leaving for Texas next year for tax reasons.

I love most things about New Hampshire, but I hate the idiotic 8.5% business tax here.  Texas has 0% income tax, 0% business tax (on sole proprietorships like mine), and a low sales tax.  New Hampshire has 0% income tax and 0% sales tax, but I don't buy much because I'm a saver.  So, I'm looking at 8.5% overall taxes in New Hampshire versus ~1.25% overall taxes in Texas. 

Texas wins, so I'm outta here and I'm taking my small business with me.

I hope you don't have any children. Texas has some of the worst public services of any state in the country. It's schools are in a heated race with Mississippi for ranking dead last nationally. (MS is winning that race by a nose right now.) So yeah Texas has very low taxes and one of the lowest levels of government regulation of business. But that is a two edged sword. Texas has the highest percentage of people without medical insurance in the country and a fertilizer plant explosion just wiped out most of a small town. There are few safety regulations and those that exist are rarely enforced. You get what you pay for.

Ad Orientem wrote: Texas has the highest percentage of people without medical insurance in the country [...]

Out of curiosity, do you see that as the state's fault, or the fault of the people living in the state? And is there evidence that this is a real problem? As in, does Texas also lead the nation in medical bankruptcies or something, for example?

hoost wrote: How do the property taxes and property values compare?  I pay 2.53% in my neighborhood (with a 20% homestead exemption) in Houston.

I didn't compare property taxes, because I'm a renter.  From what I've been able to tell, rents in Texas are generally lower than those in New Hampshire.

Ad Orientem wrote: I hope you don't have any children. Texas has some of the worst public services of any state in the country. It's schools are in a heated race with Mississippi for ranking dead last nationally. (MS is winning that race by a nose right now.) So yeah Texas has very low taxes and one of the lowest levels of government regulation of business. But that is a two edged sword. Texas has the highest percentage of people without medical insurance in the country and a fertilizer plant explosion just wiped out most of a small town. There are few safety regulations and those that exist are rarely enforced. You get what you pay for.

I don't have children, but Texas is a big state with many schools to choose from.  I was reading about the Lubbock school system.  From Wikipedia:

Lubbock High School has been recognized for three consecutive years by Newsweek as one of the top high schools in the United States.

Where does public school funding come from in Texas?  In New Hampshire, it comes from property taxes (which are local).  Anyway, I sincerely believe that public school quality has a very weak correlation to the amount of money spent.

Pointedstick wrote:

Ad Orientem wrote: Texas has the highest percentage of people without medical insurance in the country [...]

Out of curiosity, do you see that as the state's fault, or the fault of the people living in the state? And is there evidence that this is a real problem? As in, does Texas also lead the nation in medical bankruptcies or something, for example?

Great points, PS.  A lot of those numbers (people with no health insurance, people doing poorly in school) are skewed by a large number of uneducated, poor, immigrants.  Not saying they all are, but enough to skew the numbers a large amount.

Texas public school funding comes from property taxes, and although Texas houses are relatively inexpensive the property taxes are pretty high.  There are good schools and bad ones just like any state. 

Since 41.5% of Hispanics choose not to carry health insurance, it makes sense that border states have high uninsured rates.  California also has a very high uninsured rate -- it's demographics, not politics.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121820/One-S ... rance.aspx

Pointedstick wrote:

hoost wrote: How do the property taxes and property values compare?  I pay 2.53% in my neighborhood (with a 20% homestead exemption) in Houston.

Here's a great website I found a while back that attempts to answer that question:
http://www.creditsesame.com/blog/proper ... -07072011/

That only shows you your state property tax burden.  It leaves out county, town, city, and school taxes, which in NY add up to more than the state alone. 

For instance, this web site suggests property taxes are 1.25% in NY.  I wish!  Combined with my town, county, and school taxes, I pay around 3.25% in property taxes. 

People always say when you pay rent you're throwing away your money.  Well, my property taxes alone are as much as I used to pay in rent when I lived in an apartment!  So property taxes are just like rent in that regard: you're throwing your money away either way. 

rocketdog wrote: People always say when you pay rent you're throwing away your money.  Well, my property taxes alone are as much as I used to pay in rent when I lived in an apartment!  So property taxes are just like rent in that regard: you're throwing your money away either way.

Somebody has to pay those taxes, right? Wouldn't the landlord simply bundle the costs of property taxes into rent? I suppose that a multi-unit dwelling might be more tax-efficient, but I would expect rent on a single-family house to be only slightly higher than the equivalent mortgage payment plus property taxes.

Also, 3.25%? Yikes.

Pointedstick wrote: Also, 3.25%? Yikes.

Yep, it's crazy here.  The closer to NYC, the worse it gets.

Pointedstick wrote:

rocketdog wrote: People always say when you pay rent you're throwing away your money.  Well, my property taxes alone are as much as I used to pay in rent when I lived in an apartment!  So property taxes are just like rent in that regard: you're throwing your money away either way.

Somebody has to pay those taxes, right? Wouldn't the landlord simply bundle the costs of property taxes into rent? I suppose that a multi-unit dwelling might be more tax-efficient, but I would expect rent on a single-family house to be only slightly higher than the equivalent mortgage payment plus property taxes.

Also, 3.25%? Yikes.

Sure, part of the rent payment goes to pay the property taxes on an apartment.  But you still get a place to live and no maintenance worries or risk of principal. 

Yup, 3.25%.  With no kids to educate, I still get the privilege of paying over $700 a month in property taxes. And as my wife likes to say, we even bought the "poor" house in the neighborhood because it needed a lot of TLC so we got it at a great price after it had languished on the market for 18 months.  In fact, adjusted for inflation we bought the house for less than the original owners had spent to build it 20 years ago!  And they had even put on an addition!  Thankfully for us, there was never a real estate bubble where we live. 

It's even worse elsewhere. My folks live in a liberal part of Illinois and pay around 5% of the value of their home on a yearly basis. They paid off their mortgage, but you'd barely know it, looking at their housing-related cashflow. Property taxes seem to have gotten completely insane in Blue America.™