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Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:36 pm
by Ad Orientem
This month, I spoke at an event commemorating the 40th anniversary of the Watergate scandal with some of its survivors at the National Press Club. While much of the discussion looked back at the historic clash with President Nixon, I was struck by a different question: Who actually won? From unilateral military actions to warrantless surveillance that were key parts of the basis for Nixon's impending impeachment, the painful fact is that Barack Obama is the president that Nixon always wanted to be.
Four decades ago, Nixon was halted in his determined effort to create an "imperial presidency" with unilateral powers and privileges. In 2013, Obama wields those very same powers openly and without serious opposition. The success of Obama in acquiring the long-denied powers of Nixon is one of his most remarkable, if ignoble, accomplishments. Consider a few examples:
Read the rest here...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... e/2019443/
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:01 am
by MediumTex
Imagine if Nixon had received a Nobel Peace Prize.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:09 am
by craigr
MediumTex wrote:
Imagine if Nixon had received a Nobel Peace Prize.
Yes, the situation is ridiculous. The Norwegians have an awesome sense of humor, even if the rest of us don't get it.
Yet I always remind myself that the power Obama is using today was ratcheted in through decades of hard work on the part of control freaks from both parties. Obama is simply pulling levers that Bush II gave him, etc.. Of course when Bush II was doing it, the GOP didn't mind.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:16 pm
by Ad Orientem
craigr wrote:
MediumTex wrote:
Imagine if Nixon had received a Nobel Peace Prize.
Yet I always remind myself that the power Obama is using today was ratcheted in through decades of hard work on the part of control freaks from both parties. Obama is simply pulling levers that Bush II gave him, etc.. Of course when Bush II was doing it, the GOP didn't mind.
+1
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:02 pm
by Benko
You can argue that what Obama has done is an extension of what has been done previously, but with respect you cannot say that what Obama has done is nothing more than what has been done previously:
1. Obamas freezing out nearly all mainstream media coverage
2. Obama didn't like the work requirement for welfare so he changed it.
3. Forget details but there is something having to do with immigration and children that he didn't like (or couldn't get approved through congress) so he changed it.
I am not fond of and would have not have liked e.g. Hillary as president, but Obama has done more and gotten away with more than other liberals or republican predecessors.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:06 pm
by Ad Orientem
Benko wrote:
You can argue that what Obama has done is an extension of what has been done previously, but with respect you cannot say that what Obama has done is nothing more than what has been done previously:
1. Obamas freezing out nearly all mainstream media coverage
2. Obama didn't like the work requirement for welfare so he changed it.
3. Forget details but there is something having to do with immigration and children that he didn't like (or couldn't get approved through congress) so he changed it.
I am not fond of and would have not have liked e.g. Hillary as president, but Obama has done more and gotten away with more than other liberals or republican predecessors.
I don't like Obama at all. But what you cited are mostly policy decisions not violations of law or basic civil rights.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:17 pm
by Benko
"what you cited are mostly policy decisions "
I should not have mentioned 1, however ignoring/changing laws (2,3) is something that the president is legally allowed to do? I thought only congress can make/change laws?
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:18 pm
by RuralEngineer
Obama certainly has set precedent for not needing to consult with Congress before using troops and we may never see a budget pass again (thanks B.O.!).
Another favorite has got to be B.O. telling defense contractors to ignore federal law and not give their employees WARN notices in the event of the Sequester and that they would be reimbursed with tax dollars for any legal fees they suffered as a result of being sued for breaking the law. Completely bypassing Congress, just like with the Immigration deal.
I can only imagine the kind of crap that his nutbag successors will try to get away with.
To Ad Orientem:
And other than not passing a budget, I think these are violations of law. To Benko's point about the modification of the "Work" definition in the Welfare reform legislation, I'm not under the impression that the President has the ability to modify Legislation by executive order, are you? I consider that a violation of law. Changing what constitutes "work" with respect to Welfare is no different that changing what constitutes "obscene" with respect to freedom of expression. The President doesn't get to make those calls, he's not a legislator.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:27 pm
by Ad Orientem
RuralEngineer wrote:
To Ad Orientem:
And other than not passing a budget, I think these are violations of law. To Benko's point about the modification of the "Work" definition in the Welfare reform legislation, I'm not under the impression that the President has the ability to modify Legislation by executive order, are you? I consider that a violation of law. Changing what constitutes "work" with respect to Welfare is no different that changing what constitutes "obscene" with respect to freedom of expression. The President doesn't get to make those calls, he's not a legislator.
George Bush did it all the time. He issued scores of so called "Signing Statements" to legislation in which he outlined his "interpretation" or areas of disagreement with the law and announced his right to ignore those aspects of the law. So yea BO is basically just Bush's third term as president.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:36 pm
by RuralEngineer
Ad Orientem wrote:
RuralEngineer wrote:
To Ad Orientem:
And other than not passing a budget, I think these are violations of law. To Benko's point about the modification of the "Work" definition in the Welfare reform legislation, I'm not under the impression that the President has the ability to modify Legislation by executive order, are you? I consider that a violation of law. Changing what constitutes "work" with respect to Welfare is no different that changing what constitutes "obscene" with respect to freedom of expression. The President doesn't get to make those calls, he's not a legislator.
George Bush did it all the time. He issued scores of so called "Signing Statements" to legislation in which he outlined his "interpretation" or areas of disagreement with the law and announced his right to ignore those aspects of the law. So yea BO is basically just Bush's third term as president.
This is exactly why having these kinds of turds in office is so damaging. They set precedent and we're stuck with their bad behavior in perpetuity. Each one pushes the boundary of how far they can go just a little bit further. Obama has any number of impeachable offenses on the books in my opinion, but we can't touch him because we get screams of "but YOUR guy did it first!" from the Dems (although who actually started a lot of this, I'm not sure) and to be truthful, I doubt the GOP is all that interested in weakening the Presidency in case they ever get a shot at it again.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:57 pm
by Ad Orientem
A great, and damning article by former Senator and Navy Secretary Jim Webb (D-VA)...
IN MATTERS of foreign policy, Congress, and especially the Senate, was designed as a hedge against the abuses exhibited by overeager European monarchs who for centuries had whimsically entangled their countries in misguided adventures. America would not be such a place. The Constitution would protect our governmental process from the overreach of a single executive who might otherwise succumb to the impulsive temptation to unilaterally risk our country’s blood, treasure and international prestige. Congress was given the power to declare war and appropriate funds, thus eliminating any resemblance to European-style monarchies when it came to the presidential war power.
Importantly and often forgotten these days, Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution was also carefully drawn to give Congress, not the president, certain powers over the structure and use of the military. True, the president would act as commander in chief, but only in the sense that he would be executing policies shepherded within the boundaries of legislative powers. In some cases his power is narrowed further by the requirement that he obtain the “Advice and Consent”? of two-thirds of the Senate. Congress, not the president, would “raise and support Armies,”? with the Constitution limiting appropriations for such armies to no more than two years. This was a clear signal that in our new country there would be no standing army to be sent off on foreign adventures at the whim of a pseudomonarch. The United States would not engage in unchecked, perpetual military campaigns.
Read the rest here...
http://nationalinterest.org/article/con ... ation-8138
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:22 pm
by rocketdog
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:36 pm
by MediumTex
How does George W. Bush rank in relation to Obama and Nixon?
IMHO, all three are awful from a Constitutional perspective, but I'm not sure which of the three I would say is the worst.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:41 pm
by Ad Orientem
MediumTex wrote:
How does George W. Bush rank in relation to Obama and Nixon?
IMHO, all three are awful from a Constitutional perspective, but I'm not sure which of the three I would say is the worst.
I have generally ranked Bush as worse than Nixon. Only Woodrow Wilson ranks lower on my list of former presidents.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:05 pm
by rocketdog
MediumTex wrote:
How does George W. Bush rank in relation to Obama and Nixon?
Bush vs. Nixon: battle for ‘worst ever’
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:14 pm
by Ad Orientem
No way are either of these clowns worse than Wilson.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:34 pm
by rocketdog
Personally, I rank FDR up there near the top too, for saddling us with Social Security.
Do you add Wilson to the list because he signed the Fed into being?
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:50 pm
by Pointedstick
If I had to guess, probably prodding the USA into a European regional conflict, escalating it into a global war, and then using it as an excuse to destabilize the region by shoving democracy down the throats of the losers.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:51 pm
by Ad Orientem
I detest Wilson for the same reasons that most of the liberal weenies love him (and a few others on the side). Woodrow Wilson was a self absorbed man with a messianic complex that in any ordinary person would have caused others to question his mental faculties. He was so absolutely convinced that he knew what the world needed that he dragged the United States into a war we had no business being in and got a quarter of a million Americans killed or wounded. In the process of arbitrarily creating the new world order according to his own judgments after the war, he was the prime instigator in dismantling most of Europe’s old order and replacing it with a hodge podge of states that had little cohesion and no real foundation. As just one example, the perpetual crisis in the Balkans in the 90’s is a direct consequence of the dismantling of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which had maintained a semblance of order among its vast and diverse populace. The Second World War is something which must at least in part be laid at Wilson’s feet. Had we stayed out of the First World War it would have ended with a German victory (distasteful, but again none of our business) and the complete catastrophe of the treaty of Versailles would most likely have been avoided.
Wilson was a bigot who quickly broke his campaign pledge on taking office and issued an executive order segregating the civil service on racial lines. His cabinet was packed by men who were either members of the Klan or openly sympathetic to its aims. During the war he exercised powers that Lincoln could only have dreamed of and sharply curtailed freedom of speech and the press. He jailed any who dared to criticize his administration or the war. Wilson’s obsessions with the war also lead directly to the suppression of most serious efforts to deal with the crisis of the influenza pandemic in the Fall of 1918. This lead to the deaths of more than 700,000 Americans, more than three times as many as were killed by the Kaiser's army.
And finally on a very petty point of peevishness I note that it was Wilson’s Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, an outspoken white supremacist and puritanical Methodist (yes there were such things at one time), who on taking office in 1913 swiftly moved to abolish the immemorial custom of the daily ration of rum for all enlisted men in the Navy. Mr. Daniels was one of the movers and shakers behind what would eventually become Prohibition. To this day all Navy ships are dry and remain the last vestige of Federally enforced prohibition.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:55 pm
by Ad Orientem
Pointedstick wrote:
If I had to guess, probably prodding the USA into a European regional conflict, escalating it into a global war, and then using it as an excuse to destabilize the region by shoving democracy down the throats of the losers.
You win the prize...

Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:01 pm
by Pointedstick
Yikes, I forgot all about the racism and sowing the seeds of prohibition.
What an awful president.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:26 pm
by MediumTex
When talking about Woodrow Wilson, it's important to remember that he might never have been elected if the blustering Theodore Roosevelt hadn't run against Taft on a third party ticket in 1912 and presumably split the Republican vote basically in half, which opened to door for Wilson to be President with a mere 41.8% of the popular vote (Taft got 23.2% and Roosevelt got 27.4%).
Theodore Roosevelt was a total warmonger and always wanted to be involved in a great war (even though he was a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, just like our current assassin-in-chief Obama). It may be that World War I was actually an indirect result of his foolish decision to enter the 1912 race. I wonder if it occurred to him as he watched WWI unfold in the last years of his life that he was, in part, responsible for putting the man in power who caused it. Probably not.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:36 pm
by rocketdog
Ad Orientem wrote:
I detest Wilson for the same reasons that most of the liberal weenies love him (and a few others on the side). Woodrow Wilson was a self absorbed man with a messianic complex that in any ordinary person would have caused others to question his mental faculties. He was so absolutely convinced that he knew what the world needed that he dragged the United States into a war we had no business being in and got a quarter of a million Americans killed or wounded. In the process of arbitrarily creating the new world order according to his own judgments after the war, he was the prime instigator in dismantling most of Europe’s old order and replacing it with a hodge podge of states that had little cohesion and no real foundation. As just one example, the perpetual crisis in the Balkans in the 90’s is a direct consequence of the dismantling of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which had maintained a semblance of order among its vast and diverse populace. The Second World War is something which must at least in part be laid at Wilson’s feet. Had we stayed out of the First World War it would have ended with a German victory (distasteful, but again none of our business) and the complete catastrophe of the treaty of Versailles would most likely have been avoided.
Wilson was a bigot who quickly broke his campaign pledge on taking office and issued an executive order segregating the civil service on racial lines. His cabinet was packed by men who were either members of the Klan or openly sympathetic to its aims. During the war he exercised powers that Lincoln could only have dreamed of and sharply curtailed freedom of speech and the press. He jailed any who dared to criticize his administration or the war. Wilson’s obsessions with the war also lead directly to the suppression of most serious efforts to deal with the crisis of the influenza pandemic in the Fall of 1918. This lead to the deaths of more than 700,000 Americans, more than three times as many as were killed by the Kaiser's army.
And finally on a very petty point of peevishness I note that it was Wilson’s Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, an outspoken white supremacist and puritanical Methodist (yes there were such things at one time), who on taking office in 1913 swiftly moved to abolish the immemorial custom of the daily ration of rum for all enlisted men in the Navy. Mr. Daniels was one of the movers and shakers behind what would eventually become Prohibition. To this day all Navy ships are dry and remain the last vestige of Federally enforced prohibition.
Well, okay, but tell us how you
really feel.
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:06 pm
by Ad Orientem
rocketdog wrote:
Well, okay, but tell us how you really feel.
Bleeeeeeeeeep!
Re: Obama Is The President That Nixon Wanted To Be
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:16 pm
by moda0306
Ad Orientem wrote:
I detest Wilson for the same reasons that most of the liberal weenies love him (and a few others on the side). Woodrow Wilson was a self absorbed man with a messianic complex that in any ordinary person would have caused others to question his mental faculties. He was so absolutely convinced that he knew what the world needed that he dragged the United States into a war we had no business being in and got a quarter of a million Americans killed or wounded. In the process of arbitrarily creating the new world order according to his own judgments after the war, he was the prime instigator in dismantling most of Europe’s old order and replacing it with a hodge podge of states that had little cohesion and no real foundation. As just one example, the perpetual crisis in the Balkans in the 90’s is a direct consequence of the dismantling of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which had maintained a semblance of order among its vast and diverse populace. The Second World War is something which must at least in part be laid at Wilson’s feet. Had we stayed out of the First World War it would have ended with a German victory (distasteful, but again none of our business) and the complete catastrophe of the treaty of Versailles would most likely have been avoided.
Wilson was a bigot who quickly broke his campaign pledge on taking office and issued an executive order segregating the civil service on racial lines. His cabinet was packed by men who were either members of the Klan or openly sympathetic to its aims. During the war he exercised powers that Lincoln could only have dreamed of and sharply curtailed freedom of speech and the press. He jailed any who dared to criticize his administration or the war. Wilson’s obsessions with the war also lead directly to the suppression of most serious efforts to deal with the crisis of the influenza pandemic in the Fall of 1918. This lead to the deaths of more than 700,000 Americans, more than three times as many as were killed by the Kaiser's army.
And finally on a very petty point of peevishness I note that it was Wilson’s Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Daniels, an outspoken white supremacist and puritanical Methodist (yes there were such things at one time), who on taking office in 1913 swiftly moved to abolish the immemorial custom of the daily ration of rum for all enlisted men in the Navy. Mr. Daniels was one of the movers and shakers behind what would eventually become Prohibition. To this day all Navy ships are dry and remain the last vestige of Federally enforced prohibition.
Most of those don't sound like reasons that liberals would like him.
But yeah, awful president
But let's not forget that even "Cool Cal" was in favor of our involvement in WWI. I don't understand it, but a lot of good people wanted that thing to happen.
I love Teddy though. So maybe I'm just trying to justify his WWI support.