Gyroscopic Investing

Brings up the salient point about registration often being a precursor to confiscation:

http://libertycrier.com/finance/is-the- ... -our-gold/

In what way would it benefit the U.S. government to confiscate gold, considering that we are no longer on a gold standard and there is almost zero chance of ever going back on one?

Who knows:  Control?  To buy off foreign gov'ts?  To cover up inflation?  I'm not in agreement that this is where things are headed necessarily, but the gov't is constantly doing things that make no sense and aren't in its own best interest, so their actions are generally beyond my comprehension or ability to predict.

Even if the government itself doesn't gain from it, you always have to ask yourself whether individual politicians may gain something, even if it's just social signaling for their constituency. Someone elected on the platform of gold confiscation would have quite an incentive to push for it in order to keep his or her job.

There are other states and locales that photograph sellers of jewelry, etc. to help reduce the ability of thieves to easily fence stolen goods. That seems to be the direction of this bill.

MediumTex wrote: and there is almost zero chance of ever going back on one?

how did you determine that?

craigr wrote: There are other states and locales that photograph sellers of jewelry, etc. to help reduce the ability of thieves to easily fence stolen goods. That seems to be the direction of this bill.

Beware of first impressions.  Remember, the Social Security card was originally to be used strictly as evidence of benefits.  Early cards even read "Not To Be Used For Identification".  Today it's used as the de facto form of identification of every American citizen. 

Also beware of scope creep.  The income tax was originally billed in 1912 as a "Soak the Rich" tax and was promised to only impact the top 2% of wage earners.  Now look where we are.

Finally, beware of Orwellian Newspeak.  As an example, you would think that the Banking Secrecy Act of 1970 was a good thing that protects banking privacy.  In fact it did just the opposite by removing secrecy from the banking system under the guise of uncovering money laundering.  Apparently Congress thought "The Banking Spy and Intrusion Act" wouldn't have gone over too well with the public.

murphy_p_t wrote:

MediumTex wrote: and there is almost zero chance of ever going back on one?

how did you determine that?

I know that politicians, bureaucrats and central banks will always act in their own self-interest, and a gold standard does nothing for these people as a group except limit their power to spend, and thus I don't see support for a return to a gold standard among political leaders ever reaching a critical mass.

I also don't recall any other country that has gone off a gold standard choosing to go back on one in recent times.  About the closest thing you have seen has been the "U.S. dollar standard" that some countries have attempted to implement, often with disastrous results (see Argentina for a good example).

Who knows, but the only way I can see them confiscating gold would be if they were forced to return to a gold standard. 

That wouldn't be the most horrible thing in the world, IMO.  If it ever comes down to that, it's probably better than the alternative. 

There will still be inflation hedges like silver, diamonds, fine art, and you could argue that things like real estate and gold mining companies could do just fine in a portfolio as an inflation hedge if the world didn't print funny money.

Seems unlikely.  Far more likely they would just tax our gold.  As in preparation for some kind of property/asset tax.  Not that I even think that is likely, just more likely.

I think they are doing this because lots of people don't report the gains on sales of gold because they transact all in cash. I bet the government is mostly just trying to crack down on that behavior.

Worrying about gold confiscation is kind of pointless. FDR did it in the 30s because it was tied to our money and he wanted to manipulate the currency. Today gold is just another asset. They are just as likely to confiscate your car as they are your gold (neither are very likely in my opinion).

melveyr wrote: I think they are doing this because lots of people don't report the gains on sales of gold because they transact all in cash. I bet the government is mostly just trying to crack down on that behavior.

But as we all know, there can be no true "gain" on a sale of gold since if gold has gone up in value it really only means that the dollar has gone down in value.  So it's really a wash, no different than if you exchanged foreign currency for dollars.  They don't charge you tax on currency exchanges, so why the tax on gold sales?  It's not my fault if the dollar has become devalued and therefore it takes more of them to purchase my gold. 

rocketdog wrote: So it's really a wash, no different than if you exchanged foreign currency for dollars.  They don't charge you tax on currency exchanges,

are you sure the IRS views it that way?

murphy_p_t wrote:are you sure the IRS views it that way?

They don't, and that's my point. 

rocketdog wrote: But as we all know, there can be no true "gain" on a sale of gold since if gold has gone up in value it really only means that the dollar has gone down in value.  So it's really a wash, no different than if you exchanged foreign currency for dollars.  They don't charge you tax on currency exchanges, so why the tax on gold sales?  It's not my fault if the dollar has become devalued and therefore it takes more of them to purchase my gold.

That wouldn't apply to semi-numismatic or numismatic gold coins, which can easily dwarf any minor loss in purchasing power.

clacy wrote: That wouldn't be the most horrible thing in the world, IMO.  If it ever comes down to that, it's probably better than the alternative. 

I think it would be far worse for our government to hold our currency to gold (or, really, simply promise to until it's no longer convenint) but confiscate our gold, than if it were to let our currency float and let us own gold if we please.

To me the latter is far better for government, the macro-economy, and free individuals.