Gyroscopic Investing

Uruguays president is a one of a kind leader. Not only is his background full of tumultuous revolutionary action, but his present lifestyle as one of the most humble leaders in the world is equally interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/world ... ml?hp&_r=0

Uruguay is actually on my short list of countries ive considered in the event that ERE is unatainably expensive in the states for me. Im curious if anyone has been there and what their impressions were...

Here are some snippets from the article that stood out. Its hard to think of another place in the world that resembles the descriptions here:

INDEED, if there is any country in South America where a president can drive a Beetle and get by without a large entourage of bodyguards, it might be Uruguay, which consistently ranks among the region’s least corrupt and least unequal nations. While crime is emerging as more of a concern, Uruguay remains a contender for the region’s safest country.

Polls show that his approval ratings have been declining, but “I don’t give a damn,”? insisted Mr. Mujica, emphasizing that he considered re-election to consecutive terms, already prohibited by Uruguay’s Constitution, as “monarchic.”? “If I worried about pollsters, I wouldn’t be president,”? he said.

My impression is Uruguay is sort of a anarchronistic backwater in that it is trying to catch up with the staid, liberal West in terms of implementing welfare benefits, eliminating financial privacy, instituting an income tax and tolerating petty crime all courtesy of weirdy-birdy Mujica.  The problem is not just Mujica per se, but the new bureaucracy and infrastructure will be vulnerable to exploitation by future red capitalist cronies.  Uruguay does not have a long history of democracy or property rights, so its government will always be vulnerable to ideological populist takeover.  It does raise interesting issues of what kind of person you want to wield puppet power...  someone who desires the power like Obama or someone reluctant like Mujica or Coolidge (or even Romney).

But maybe in this age of MR, such measures are necessary?

Anyway, I think Chile is a much more forward-thinking place.  It'll be the Hong Kong or Singapore of South America eventually.  But lets face it, none of the South American countries have a long tradition of the American ideals we take for granted.  Security is never assured.

MachineGhost wrote: My impression is Uruguay is sort of a anarchronistic backwater in that it is trying to catch up with the staid, liberal West in terms of implementing welfare benefits, eliminating financial privacy, instituting an income tax and tolerating petty crime all courtesy of weirdy-birdy Mujica.  The problem is not just Mujica per se, but the new bureaucracy and infrastructure will be vulnerable to exploitation by future cronies.  It does raise interesting issues of what kind of person you want to wield power...  someone who wants the power like Obama or someone reluctant like Mujica or Coolidge (or even Romney).

But maybe in this age of fiat MR, such measures are necessary.

Anyway, Chile is a much more forward-thinking place.  It'll be the Hong Kong or Singapore of South America eventually.

Been to Chile....parents live there. By latin american standards its pretty good..a shangri la it is not though. There are still plenty of problems....Santiago is routinely shut down by student and worker protests. Chile has been benefitting greatly from Chinese driven commodity boom. This is showing signs of slowing....in other words things could get dicey.

In terms of ERE (one of my interests with regards to Uruguay) I can say that Chile is a no go.....super expensive. Gas is double that of the states, food is about the same price, clothing is triple, even housing is comprable to the states.

doodle wrote: In terms of ERE (one of my interests with regards to Uruguay) I can say that Chile is a no go.....super expensive. Gas is double that of the states, food is about the same price, clothing is triple, even housing is comprable to the states.

Why is it all cheaper in Uruguay?  No jobs?

Have you factored in the $87.6K income tax exclusion and $14K house allowance?

MachineGhost wrote:

doodle wrote: In terms of ERE (one of my interests with regards to Uruguay) I can say that Chile is a no go.....super expensive. Gas is double that of the states, food is about the same price, clothing is triple, even housing is comprable to the states.

Why is it all cheaper in Uruguay?  No jobs?

Have you factored in the $87.6K income tax exclusion and $14K house allowance?

Congress is working to eliminate that.  (I actually thought they had already lowered the amount, but I haven't been following it very closely).

I've lived as an expat for several years in three different Latin American countries and here's the conclusion I've come to:

When it's all said and done, you can live in the States for the same amount of money-- if you're willing to give up what you give up, living down there.

If you want to live a Western lifestyle, there are some things you'll come out ahead on (paying for services, food in restaurants, etc...) and other things you won't (automobiles, gasoline, consumer electronics).  It ends up being pretty close to a wash.

If you're a hippy and you don't mind living in a place that doesn't have hot water or a washer/dryer, then you can live very cheaply.  But you can do that here in the States, too-- and not have to waste time dealing with the, "manana" syndrome that seems to affect everything. 

Don't buy the, "It's all beer-and-ice-cream" pitch that web sites like: International Living and Escape Artist are trying to sell.  They have their own agenda.

I've looked at all of the popular expat destinations, and in the end decided we were better of in the U.S., for all it's problems.

That being said: It never hurts to have a Plan B.

doodle wrote: Uruguays president is a one of a kind leader. Not only is his background full of tumultuous revolutionary action, but his present lifestyle as one of the most humble leaders in the world is equally interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/world ... ml?hp&_r=0

Uruguay is actually on my short list of countries ive considered in the event that ERE is unatainably expensive in the states for me. Im curious if anyone has been there and what their impressions were...

Hi,

do you have a ERE DIARY?

What other countries you are thinking?

Regards 

Besides Chile, Columbia is interesting too.

frugal wrote:

doodle wrote: Uruguays president is a one of a kind leader. Not only is his background full of tumultuous revolutionary action, but his present lifestyle as one of the most humble leaders in the world is equally interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/world ... ml?hp&_r=0

Uruguay is actually on my short list of countries ive considered in the event that ERE is unatainably expensive in the states for me. Im curious if anyone has been there and what their impressions were...

Hi,

do you have a ERE DIARY?

What other countries you are thinking?

Regards 

What is an ERE diary?

At one time I thought I would track expenditures, but then I realized that it would be pointless about the time when I eliminated buying toilet paper. I guess you could say that there isnt much fat on the budget left to trim... :-)

Anyways....in all reality the States is probably the cheapest place to live with the exception of one thing: healthcare. Hopefully we sort out this mess out soon

As far as overseas locations Im fluent in Spanish so Im considering some of the warmer areas of Latin America. However, things arent drastically cheaper, especially if you expect to live at an American standard. Sooo....realistically it looks like im staying put in the states, while maintaining a healthy fantasy about some of these other locations.

By the way...

As far as healthcare goes in the states I actually kind of support Stossel on this one...ultimately I think a single payer with a high deductible would be the best way to go. Frist five hundred is paid by government then the subsequent next thousand comes straight out of your pocket. At least that gives people an incentive to stop shoving twinkies down their throats. As far as people with pre existing conditions, that could be tweaked a bit, but overall I think most doctors visits besides the routine checkup stuff are a waste. In addition, force doctors to post one price for all procedures and the same goes for prescriptions. .....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnS96NVlMI

doodle wrote: As far as overseas locations Im fluent in Spanish so Im considering some of the warmer areas of Latin America. However, things arent drastically cheaper, especially if you expect to live at an American standard. Sooo....realistically it looks like im staying put in the states, while maintaining a healthy fantasy about some of these other locations.

If that really is the case, then Asia is the only other realistic option.  Like Malaysia, Phillipines or even Thailand or Vietnam, etc..

Will you ER with small childrens?

Do you think to leave to another country with small childrens?

Rgds

doodle wrote: Uruguay is actually on my short list of countries ive considered in the event that ERE is unatainably expensive in the states for me. Im curious if anyone has been there and what their impressions were...

I live there. What would you like to know?

escafandro wrote:

doodle wrote: Uruguay is actually on my short list of countries ive considered in the event that ERE is unatainably expensive in the states for me. Im curious if anyone has been there and what their impressions were...

I live there. What would you like to know?

I'm not the original poster, but I'm going to be visiting Uy in a month or so, with the possibility in mind of moving there. Where in the country are you?

Libertarian666 wrote: I'm not the original poster, but I'm going to be visiting Uy in a month or so, with the possibility in mind of moving there. Where in the country are you?

Next to Montevideo, a place along the coast of the De la Plata river called "Ciudad de la Costa".
I think for a foreigner the best places to live would be where I am, Montevideo or Punta del Este (the latter especially in summer, but is an expensive city).

escafandro wrote:

Libertarian666 wrote: I'm not the original poster, but I'm going to be visiting Uy in a month or so, with the possibility in mind of moving there. Where in the country are you?

Next to Montevideo, a place along the coast of the De la Plata river called "Ciudad de la Costa".
I think for a foreigner the best places to live would be where I am, Montevideo or Punta del Este (the latter especially in summer, but is an expensive city).

What is the average middle class family expenses per month?

Regards

frugal wrote: What is the average middle class family expenses per month?

Regards

With own house and car, I spend between 2000 and 2500 dollars per month (being two). With childrens I think you should add $ 500 each.
regards

escafandro wrote:

frugal wrote: What is the average middle class family expenses per month?

Regards

With own house and car, I spend between 2000 and 2500 dollars per month (being two). With childrens I think you should add $ 500 each.
regards

The house and car being owned free and clear, or being paid off on a monthly basis?

Pointedstick wrote: The house and car being owned free and clear, or being paid off on a monthly basis?

Already finished paying. No debts.

Go you! That's awesome.

escafandro wrote:

frugal wrote: What is the average middle class family expenses per month?

Regards

With own house and car, I spend between 2000 and 2500 dollars per month (being two). With childrens I think you should add $ 500 each.
regards

I can't understand, in my country those expenses are for a rich couple

here in the same condition you spend maybe half

frugal wrote: I can't understand, in my country those expenses are for a rich couple
here in the same condition you spend maybe half

I know  . The other day talking with a friend who lives in Spain (also a couple) we get numbers and realized that he spends about 30 to 40% less than me. And I'm not spending much.
Uruguay is not cheap for Latin America. The main issue I think is to be a net importer country and have expensive tariffs on that.
The other issue from a libertarian perspective is that much of the services are provide by the state and therefore are expensive, something inefficient and bureaucratic.