Gyroscopic Investing

I like the idea of home school combined with several outlets for social development. Perhaps organized sports, martial arts classes, library book club events etc.

I'd consider sending my child to public high school around grade 11 for one or two years for socialization purposes only. By that point, I would hope the kid is smart enough to realize public school is a crock of sh*t and will already know 10x more than everyone around him or her. And would basically treat it as the social experiment it is.

The speech to my child would be something to the effect of: "These are the people who will be your coworkers, bosses, neighbors, police officers. They are being indoctrinated by the government to not think for themselves, sit in one seat for a defined period of time until dismissed by an authority figure, be forced to wear a specific uniform attire to blend in with everyone else, and lied to about history. However, it's important you see what they are doing so you can understand where they are coming from and not judge them as harshly as adults because it was inevitable they'd turn out this way given public education."

I can only imagine how horrified an atheist-raised Libertarian home-school child would be to see what goes on in public schools. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I'm horrified.

According to public schools, Abraham Lincoln was the greatest president of our time and the civil war was fought over slavery, and it's "good" the north won. /sigh

My wife is a kindergarten teacher and while I'd love to homeschool our future children, it's financially challenging. I'm likely going the public school route with home supplementation. Maybe if a long lost rich relative leaves me buckets of money (after Uncle Sam is through with his theft), we could both stay home and do it right.

Move overseas and send them to an international private school. Best schooling experience I've ever had! 

Short of that, if money is an issue, I would look for one of those public schools that has a magnet program for gifted students and try to get them on that advanced placement track. The kids in those classes make for a much more stimulative educational experience.

My experience learning and teaching in run of the mill American public schools has been pretty bad. As a student, it felt like a never-ending prison sentence. From the teaching side, I felt like a warden.

I would shy away from homeschooling, but I don't know how it has changed since the advent of the internet. There is a social aspect to schooling that I feel homeschooled kids miss out on.

If I were seriously thinking about homeschooling my kids, I would look to see if it would be possible to form a small neighborhood school with like 10 to 15 kids.....kind of like a charter. I think it would be easier to teach a group of kids  in a structured setting than to sit down with my two kids alone at the kitchen table.

My kids attend public school mainly to learn how to interact with others.  I supplement that with 2 hours nightly doing MY  homework that is independent of what they do in their school.  This involves nightly math, piano, reading, computer work, and science study (I alternate homework tasks). I don't mean to come off like some kind of Tiger Dad, but 2 hours spent doing RELEVENT homework isn't too much to ask. 

Charter schools.

Why do people disparage public schools so much?  Perhaps they vary widely by region?  I went to a public school in MA, but I'm not sure how particularly noteworthy it is if measured on a national scale.  Still, in a class of 300, the top 1-2% were extremely bright and hardworking.  It probably reflects positive parental influence more than anything else.  I knew many students at top private schools in the MA area and didn't observe any particular advantage they had over these students.  We still had our fair share of acceptances to Ivies and other top ranked universities.

Also, why do people believe that if XYZ is taught in school that students automatically accept it as the Truth and believe it 100%?  The period of young adulthood is a time of great introspection and personal development.  Children are capable of studying and coming to their own conclusions about religion, politics, etc.  I guess the most important skill that is taught in schools is an ability to think critically. 

Your question:

rhymenocerous wrote: Why do people disparage public schools so much?

Our answer, taken from your post: 

rhymenocerous wrote: I guess the most important skill that is taught in schools is an ability to think critically.

I agree that public schools are often bashed excessively, since IMHO the parents and the home life are the most important component of a child's education, but it's not very controversial to say that real, actual critical thinking skills are not only neglected but actively squashed in many cases. I'm sure any of us here can furnish you with examples from our own schooling experience. To be fair, it's not clear that most private schools are much better in this department either.

rhymenocerous wrote: Why do people disparage public schools so much?  Perhaps they vary widely by region?  I went to a public school in MA, but I'm not sure how particularly noteworthy it is if measured on a national scale.  Still, in a class of 300, the top 1-2% were extremely bright and hardworking.  It probably reflects positive parental influence more than anything else.  I knew many students at top private schools in the MA area and didn't observe any particular advantage they had over these students.  We still had our fair share of acceptances to Ivies and other top ranked universities.

Your comment/experience sort of belies what the problem is.  MA is a very liberal, high tax state and relatively homogenously white with a lot of white, upper crust elites due to Wall Street and hedge fund employees.  Elites think they are better than everyone else as is reflected by their reckless, selfish driving.

The real problem is any "public school" is only as good as the local property taxes that funds it.  It is unfair and unjust if you happened to born by accident of birth in a ghetto.

Simonjester wrote: most public (and private) schools world wide use a system of education derived from the "Prussian education system", and are fundamentally designed to discourage critical thinking and independent though in favor of memorization and regurgitation of disparate "facts" in order to get a grade.  very few even touch on the basic fundamentals of critical thinking such as logic.......

If you really want to look at the history of education, public schools started around the time of the industrial revolution.  They were designed to train students to be obedient little worker drones so that they could work in the factories.  At the time, most kids grew up in an agrarian society and worked on the farm.  Their farm training apparently didn't suit them well for factory work, which was highly repetitive and most likely extremely dangerous, mainly because there were no safety regulations at the time.

I find it somewhat amusing that if you learn too much about any profession or career you will be disgusted by what you find.  I do think education is important, however, the roots of education were basically brainwashing kids at a young age to be happy with their dangerous repetitive factory work because otherwise they would lose them to the farm life (which by all rights, was probably superior to working in a factory 80 hours a week).

Here's a really interesting essay that's highly relevant to the school discussion:

http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

The main topic is about why nerds are unpopular, but it also goes into the real reasons public schools exist today.  It's my favorite Paul Graham essay.

edsanville wrote: Here's a really interesting essay that's highly relevant to the school discussion:

http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

The main topic is about why nerds are unpopular, but it also goes into the real reasons public schools exist today.  It's my favorite Paul Graham essay.

Excellent!

Simonjester wrote:

Storm wrote:

Simonjester wrote: most public (and private) schools world wide use a system of education derived from the "Prussian education system", and are fundamentally designed to discourage critical thinking and independent though in favor of memorization and regurgitation of disparate "facts" in order to get a grade. very few even touch on the basic fundamentals of critical thinking such as logic.......

If you really want to look at the history of education, public schools started around the time of the industrial revolution. They were designed to train students to be obedient little worker drones so that they could work in the factories. At the time, most kids grew up in an agrarian society and worked on the farm. Their farm training apparently didn't suit them well for factory work, which was highly repetitive and most likely extremely dangerous, mainly because there were no safety regulations at the time.

I find it somewhat amusing that if you learn too much about any profession or career you will be disgusted by what you find. I do think education is important, however, the roots of education were basically brainwashing kids at a young age to be happy with their dangerous repetitive factory work because otherwise they would lose them to the farm life (which by all rights, was probably superior to working in a factory 80 hours a week).

that is pretty much how public education started, the Prussians discovered classically educated solders thought about the orders they were given, and wouldn't follow bad ones, they came up with a system that encouraged conformity and following orders (especially bad ones) without thinking
this was also perfectly suited to the industrial revolution.