Gyroscopic Investing

stone wrote: I've wondered what the "aim" is for improving medicine? We are all going to fall apart at some point. Should we be aiming to put ourselves together if non-age related medical mishaps occur, manage the aging process with greater comfort and convenience, extend life by any means for a few more decades?

Mountaineer wrote: Ideally, each of us would come to believe that God is first, everyone else is second, and self is third.  Would that not make for a better world - even if the non-believers leave out God being first?

... Mountaineer

The biggest flip the bird ever will be to transcend the repugnant limitations of biology.  So in that respect, I see the "aim" for medicine as transhumanism.

dualstow wrote: No it would not. No offense, but I don't want God in my medicine, thank you very much. Ideally, it would not even be a part of this conversation.

BearBones wrote:

dualstow wrote: No it would not. No offense, but I don't want God in my medicine, thank you very much. Ideally, it would not even be a part of this conversation.

I don't think that was the point. If I interpret Mountaineer correctly, it is that health needs to be balanced, not just on the physical being but also the mental/emotional/spiritual. Can't have one without the other. And anyone assisting with that goal needs both to respect each of our unique gifts and goals and also to be mindful of a final common pathway toward the health of the soul (and, no, I am NOT a religious person).

For example, I had a patient that was developing severe complications from type 2 diabetes, in turn from his morbid obesity. Traditional medicine too often approaches this as a physical problem to be solved: lose weight, and if you cannot do that go on medicines to control the DM and consider gastric bypass, etc. A more balanced approach, however, is to look at the cause of the obesity, which is the mental/emotional/spiritual realm, right? Turns out this guy saw things in Vietnam that most humans should never have to see, then he was literally spat on upon returning to the US, then he was unable to hold down a job. He felt worthless and miserable, and he flirted constantly with suicide. One of the few pleasures he had was eating. So who was I to tell him, from the perspective of my privileged little life, to get it together and lose weight? He did not need my advice! What he needed was someone to hear that he was in agony. What he really needed was a lot of love.

I recently saw the Dalai Lama speak, and I was stuck by the following message. There are 2 kinds of selfishness. The first is "foolish selfishness:" concern only for oneself to the detriment of others. The second is "wise selfishness:" concern for others, ultimately done to care for oneself. A life centered around altruism and compassion naturally leads to joy and serenity. A natural reciprocity. That is the way social animals are built. That is the way we are nourished, just as the brain is built to be nourished primarily by the simple sugar, glucose.

What is the aim for medicine? I'd say, eudaimonia: human flourishing, joy, and serenity. This comes from health of the body, but also of the mind, emotions, and spirit. When you read this Wikipedia link about eudaimonia, it is apparent that Socrates', Plato's, and Aristotle's view of the health of the human soul was not all that different from that of the Dalai Lama. And perhaps not all that different to what Mountaineer is saying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia

TennPaGa wrote:

BearBones wrote: What is the aim for medicine? I'd say, eudaimonia: human flourishing, joy, and serenity. This comes from health of the body, but also of the mind, emotions, and spirit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia

Sadly, there's no money in that.

stone wrote: Perhaps spreading the word about how many doctors wouldn't want intrusive end of life medical treatment for themselves is a good way to move in the right direction. I heard about that on here from Bearbones and WiseOne (I think) but I've never seen a TV show or anything like that about it. The overwhelming thrust of medical TV shows seems to be about miracle cutting edge intensive treatments (which in some circumstances are wonderful).

Xan wrote: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 158#p42158

stone wrote: Perhaps spreading the word about how many doctors wouldn't want intrusive end of life medical treatment for themselves is a good way to move in the right direction. I heard about that on here from Bearbones and WiseOne (I think) but I've never seen a TV show or anything like that about it. The overwhelming thrust of medical TV shows seems to be about miracle cutting edge intensive treatments (which in some circumstances are wonderful).

Benko wrote: But the vast majority of people are not interested in their health till things go wrong.  [/b]  and so are doomed to have to deal with the less than optimal conventional medical system.

stone wrote: You mean like in "The Matrix" ?

MachineGhost wrote:

stone wrote: You mean like in "The Matrix" ?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or joking, but that is the opposite of what I meant: empowerment and living in reality, not disempowerment and escapism.

Reub wrote: Stone, as with everything else, we should aim that everybody gets their "fair share" when it comes to medicine.