Gyroscopic Investing

Because we are told by the CDC and the medical establishment that it is important to get a flu shot every year I am generally mistrustful of the idea.

I have only gotten the flu shot only once in my life and have somehow managed to survive for 63 years. Still, I don't mind doing it to make everyone happy as long as it isn't harmful. I've read a few opinions that it can be harmful but they are definitely in the minority.

I got mine, along with a B12 shot.

I enjoyed a nice placebo wellness buzz for about 24 hours.

Every time I get a flu shot, I get the flu. Every time I've skipped it, nothing has happened. So I don't get the flu shot.

Pointedstick wrote: Every time I get a flu shot, I get the flu. Every time I've skipped it, nothing has happened. So I don't get the flu shot.

I think I also got the flu the one year I got the shot but I'm not real sure about what is meant "the flu" any more. Seemed obvious at one time but nowadays a very bad cold seems to get lumped in with the flu.

I've read a few things about flu shots possibly being detrimental to your health - including contributing to arthritis, which at my age is much more of a concern than the flu. Don't know whether to chalk this up to quackery or not. To be safe I'm thinking I won't get the shot.

notsheigetz wrote: I think I also got the flu the one year I got the shot but I'm not real sure about what is meant "the flu" any more. Seemed obvious at one time but nowadays a very bad cold seems to get lumped in with the flu.

Specifically means infection with influenza. The shot is for most common serotype of influenza A. You can still get flu-like illnesses, but most are generally not as severe or prolonged as influenza. Occasionally, the virus may mutate after the vaccine is created, and you can still get true flu. Not often. The last time I got the flu, I was out of work for a week, and I did not have all my energy back for at least 6 weeks, so I'm not messing around any more.

notsheigetz wrote: I've read a few things about flu shots possibly being detrimental to your health - including contributing to arthritis, which at my age is much more of a concern than the flu. Don't know whether to chalk this up to quackery or not. To be safe I'm thinking I won't get the shot.

Suspect you can find anything out there. Could be true. But if you are going to get arthritis or whatever, suspect you are even more likely if you get infection with unattenuated virus (i.e., the real flu).

BearBones wrote:

notsheigetz wrote: I think I also got the flu the one year I got the shot but I'm not real sure about what is meant "the flu" any more. Seemed obvious at one time but nowadays a very bad cold seems to get lumped in with the flu.

Specifically means infection with influenza. The shot is for most common serotype of influenza A. You can still get flu-like illnesses, but most are generally not as severe or prolonged as influenza. Occasionally, the virus may mutate after the vaccine is created, and you can still get true flu. Not often. The last time I got the flu, I was out of work for a week, and I did not have all my energy back for at least 6 weeks, so I'm not messing around any more.

notsheigetz wrote: I've read a few things about flu shots possibly being detrimental to your health - including contributing to arthritis, which at my age is much more of a concern than the flu. Don't know whether to chalk this up to quackery or not. To be safe I'm thinking I won't get the shot.

Suspect you can find anything out there. Could be true. But if you are going to get arthritis or whatever, suspect you are even more likely if you get infection with unattenuated virus (i.e., the real flu).

I had the flu once and it was most unpleasant.  I came to understand how it can kill people.  Day after day of coughing, body pain, no appetite and weakness.  It was about a week of misery.

The flu vaccine doesn't always work, because the CDC has to predict the coming year's flu strain. (Great parallel to the PP duly noted.)  Even if the guess is correct, it isn't guaranteed to completely block all symptoms - you may still get it but it won't be as severe.

For healthy people under age 65, there's very little risk from the flu so the shot is optional.  If you have a medical condition that might impair your immune system, or that would be seriously exacerbated if you got the flu, then it's generally recommended that you get it.  If there is someone in your family or workplace who fits that description, then it's also a good idea to get the shot.  Also don't get it if you're allergic to eggs.

People who are at risk can develop pulmonary complications, and yes, that can kill you.  The reason that the swine flu and the Spanish influenza were so scary is that everybody was prone to developing the pulmonary complications, and perfectly healthy people were dying.  Same applies to hantavirus.  Nobody here was in Yosemite over the summer, I trust?

MediumTex wrote: I got mine, along with a B12 shot.

I forget the details, and I have no clue your age, but there is something about people 50 or older and B12 so it is a good idea for us oldsters to get supplemental B12 regularly.  I just take sublingual table most days.

Sublingual, intranasal or injection a the options for best absorption.

Due to the meningitis news (contaminated steroid-for-back-pain needles), I believe perhaps naively that they're going to be careful with the flu shot needles this year. My wife and I got shots for free when I took her to the Walgreen clinic for something else. Thinking about doing it again this year, even though I'll have to pay this time.

notsheigetz wrote: Because we are told by the CDC and the medical establishment that it is important to get a flu shot every year I am generally mistrustful of the idea.

No, they are dangerous and can actually cause the flu they're allegedly designed to prevent, like H1N1.  Its useless against new flu strains anyway.

You are better off taking Vitamin D3 and optimizing your immune system so the whole issue is moot.

Well, I followed the herd and got it. Will update this thread if I get the flu or have any negative side-effects.

MachineGhost wrote:

notsheigetz wrote: Because we are told by the CDC and the medical establishment that it is important to get a flu shot every year I am generally mistrustful of the idea.

No, they are dangerous and can actually cause the flu they're allegedly designed to prevent, like H1N1.  Its useless against new flu strains anyway.

You are better off taking Vitamin D3 and optimizing your immune system so the whole issue is moot.

This just isn't so, according to Kenneth Tran at Montreal's Gazette, even though 35 percent of consumers believe that the flu vaccine can lead to sickness. "The viruses in the flu shot are dead," Tran says. At worst, you may experience a sore arm, or a little fever as your body adapts to the virus. But it's "impossible" for you to get the full-blown flu from a flu vaccine.

Coffee wrote: This just isn't so, according to Kenneth Tran at Montreal's Gazette, even though 35 percent of consumers believe that the flu vaccine can lead to sickness. "The viruses in the flu shot are dead," Tran says. At worst, you may experience a sore arm, or a little fever as your body adapts to the virus. But it's "impossible" for you to get the full-blown flu from a flu vaccine.

I stand corrected.  The flu shot can make you more suspectible to H1N1 and significantly sicker, which is not the same thing same saying you can get the H1N1 from the flu shot.

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Vanc ... story.html

Besides, flu shots in the U.S. still contain toxic mercury which is a nonarguable reason to avoid it alltogether.

And the fact that there is a no-fault payout system designed to shield vaccine manufacturers from liability from adverse side effects is the worst perversion of rent-seeking behavior ever.  Adverse effects include Guillain-Barre Syndrome, acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis, encephalopathy, ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest, transverse myelitis or some combination of any of these.

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinions_ ... npublished

Interestingly, the CDC overstates the amount of people who die every year from the flu. They claim it's about 30,000 deaths each year (ranging from 3,300 to 49,000 deaths each year). But, that's not entirely true. It turns out the statistic they cite includes influenza and pneumonia. But, if you were to only look at influenza alone, it would be far less. In 2005, only 1,806 deaths were due to influenza in the United States.

Here's a (possibly flawed) study that showed that there has been no decrease in flu deaths in the elderly, despite increasing vaccinations from 15% to 65% now.

A 2006 Cochrane review found that flu vaccines aren’t any more effective than placebo in children.

And finally 70 percent of doctors and nurses don’t get a flu shot. because...

- They didn’t believe the vaccine would work
- They believed their immune systems were strong enough to withstand exposure to the flu
- They were concerned about side effects

While all these studies may very well be flawed (as they often are) it's something to ponder.

According to the CDC, the majority of flu vaccines contain thimerosal. Some contain as much as 25 mcg of mercury per dose. This means that it may contain more than 250 times the Environmental Protection Agency’s safety limit for mercury.

Flu vaccines also contain:

Aluminum — a neurotoxin that has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease
Triton X-100 — a detergent
Phenol (carbolic acid)
Ethylene glycol (antifreeze)
Betapropiolactone – a disinfectant
Nonoxynol – used to kill or stop growth of STDs
Octoxinol 9 – a vaginal spermicide
Sodium phosphate

Yum.  I'm getting mine tomorrow, along with most of the rest of the dept. 

Interesting studies, but do be careful about overstating the conclusions.  There were some followup commentaries and studies, like this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16368724

that found that the confounding could occur in either direction.  The conclusion was that "Further research is needed on methods to reduce the influence of bias in observational studies of influenza vaccine effectiveness."  Agreed on that score.

Notsheigitz, you might also want to consider getting a shingles vaccine soon. I believe that it is recommended if over 60 years of age. My dad got the shingles when he was 97 and the disease was fairly devastating, but he did survive it. Shingles is no laughing matter and can leave you with nerve pain permanently. It is more likely to strike as your immune system weakens with age and is due to the chicken pox virus resurfacing.

WiseOne wrote: Yum.  I'm getting mine tomorrow, along with most of the rest of the dept.  

That brings up another issue.  Increasingly mandatory vaccinations for health care workers given the questionable safety profiles and benefits is a clear assault on liberty.  Normally, a Western society is somewhat hypersensitive to perceived human rights abuses, so I find it confounding why there isn't much more uproar over forced vaccinations.  Perhaps the general public snarkily believes "its not my problem" and/or its "a risk of doing the job, if you don't like it, then leave"?

Spot on, MG.

Health care workers are abused in many ways, and on many fronts.  If the public doesn't care now, they will soon enough:

http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/page- ... ling-Point

You don't hear much about this, but many people are quietly switching careers or retiring early.  The ones that are staying are increasingly adamant about working on their own terms, e.g. hospitalist jobs with fixed hours instead of traditional practices.

Philip Morris is now getting involved in vaccine production, to make pandemic and flu shots to sell in China, using tobacco leaves.

Can't say I'm at all that surprised because the corporate mentality of tobacco and vaccine strikes me as exactly the same.

Scientific American: Flu Shots May Not Protect the Elderly or the Very Young

Terrific. The two main targets of flu vaccines.

So much for individual rights!  Just got this email from the wonderful institution of higher learning that I work for.  You used to just have to sign a form declining the vaccine.

To comply with this requirement, we ask that you choose one of the following options:

·        Receive the Vaccine at XXX– The flu vaccine is available free of charge to all personnel at the following locations:
o  all Workforce Health & Safety (WH&S) clinics
o  clinical units served by a Flu Champion 
o  onsite locations across the campuses

·        Document That You Have Been Vaccinated Elsewhere - If you have been vaccinated somewhere other than WH&S, please indicate on the attached declination form and scan to <xxx>.
·        If You Are Considering Not Being Vaccinated - You are required to complete an online education course, entitled Influenza Vaccine Required Education for Declination, before making a final decision.
...

If You Decide Not To Be Vaccinated
If you choose not to be vaccinated, you are required to complete an online education course about influenza.
·        First, go to the the XXX Learning Exchange at: http://www.XXXlearningcenter.org/exchange
·        Then, review the course which is available under the Hospital Initiatives page in the Learning Center.
·        If you need help accessing and setting up an Exchange account, please go to    http://www.XXXlearningcenter.org/misc/C ... Course.pdf
·        Once you have completed the course, print out the course completion certificate, along with a completed and signed declination form indicating your reasons for refusing vaccination.  Send BOTH forms to:  Workforce Health and Safety, XXX or fax to XXX.

I see, so you can choose not to be vaccinated, you just need to attend re-education classes! Gotta love the open-minded, tolerant academy where free flow of information and ideas reigns supreme and individual human rights are placed on a sacred pedestal. 

Wow, WiseOne. That's...alarming.

Yikes! I'm imagining something like this...

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