Gyroscopic Investing

A very good and non-biased article about nootropics:

http://www.unfinishedman.com/nootropics ... art-drugs/

Personally I've tried piracetam and aniracetam several years ago, and supplemented with choline to avoid deficiencies and headaches.

My experience is that piracetam is very subtle and needs weeks to build up in your system, however, it does allow you to focus better and in my case seemed to improve mental performance.  It is not life caffeine or stimulants in that it doesn't make you hyperactive, motivated, or more awake.

Aniracetam seems much more immediate and on taking a single dose, you will probably noticed increased mental function within 15 minutes or so.  The effects seem similar to me, although, if based on how quick acting it is, aniracetam to me seemed like a more chemically potent or refined version of piracetam.

I stopped taking them several years ago, because I feel like at best I got a 5-10% improvement in mental function, and I'm not sure the risk of taking chemicals long term is worth the small improvement.

Interesting material.  Since getting into lucid dreaming I'd run across many mentions of choline supplementation for making vivid dreams more likely.  I didn't realize it was so foundational to the whole nootropic family.

I'd also never thought of coenzyme Q-10 (which I take every day) as a nootropic!

Edit: Galantamine (apparently a "reversible acetylcholinesterase inhibitor") is another supplement some lucid dreaming folks go for.  (For the record, I'm not taking anything on this list apart from CoQ-10 and caffeinated green tea.)

While I no longer think these worth the bother, I played on and off with many of these and was on several boards in which these were discussed for years.  A few thoughts:

1.  Individual responses vary, A LOT.  Piracetam, and most of the other racetams never did anything for me even at HIGH doses.  They may for you.  make sure to take a choline supp if you try this.

2.  Pramiracetam (if you can find it) was really helpful in fostering concentration and getting things done.  Perhaps this was because I have ADHD ish tendencies.  Perhaps tolerance to this stuff develops and one has to "cycle" it.

3.  Some e.g. galantamine may have more potential for causing problems, particularly at high doses.

4. If you want a "better" version of caffeine i.e. something to help concentration, etc for e.g. period  of studying there are premade drinks e.g. I used to use powerdrive (I don't think it is made any more, but you can homebrew a version) which cointained: tyrosine, phosphatidly choline, and DMAE.  There are various concoctions one can make like this e.g. add ginko or perhaps better, vinpocetine, one can use "better" choline sources e.g. CDP choline.

5.  I personallly stay away from supps which make one relaxed, etc but there is theamine, there was one (forget name) which people developed tolerance to and withdrawl was a problem, so research stuff before you try.

6.  The legality of many of these is grey.  The gov't/FDA considers these unapproved drugs and mostly tolerates them, but that could change tomorrow.

7.  Sufficient sleep and aerobic exercise will go a long way toward optimizing things.

Storm wrote: I stopped taking them several years ago, because I feel like at best I got a 5-10% improvement in mental function, and I'm not sure the risk of taking chemicals long term is worth the small improvement.

The expense of many nootropics do make it hard to justify unless their effects are more than just marginal.

I regularly take CDP-Choline, Huperzine A and DMAE to control brain fog.

MachineGhost wrote:

Storm wrote: I stopped taking them several years ago, because I feel like at best I got a 5-10% improvement in mental function, and I'm not sure the risk of taking chemicals long term is worth the small improvement.

The expense of many nootropics do make it hard to justify unless their effects are more than just marginal.
I regularly take CDP-Choline, Huperzine A and DMAE to control brain fog.

I'd be terrified of anything like this. I guess the pharma companies' dream scenario is to have everyone dependent on pills and develop tolerance to them such that if they ever try to come off them they will become imbeciles (and obese, violent, depressed, bad hair etc etc).

Isn't high intensity exersize a wiser way to clear "brain fog"?

Evolutionarily, why did we evolve to have brains that suposidly are only a minor tweek away from "superior" function? It sounds like total BS to me. I think genuine functional itelligence requires a receptiveness that probably gets swept aside by "boosting brain function" drugs. If you have ever had mania or tried to speak to anyone who has, you'd be sorely aware of just how stupid "boosted brain function" can make people.

stone wrote: I'd be terrified of anything like this. I guess the pharma companies' dream scenario is to have everyone dependent on pills and develop tolerance to them such that if they ever try to come off them they will become imbeciles (and obese, violent, depressed, bad hair etc etc).

Isn't high intensity exersize a wiser way to clear "brain fog"?

Evolutionarily, why did we evolve to have brains that suposidly are only a minor tweek away from "superior" function? It sounds like total BS to me. I think genuine functional itelligence requires a receptiveness that probably gets swept aside by "boosting brain function" drugs. If you have ever had mania or tried to speak to anyone who has, you'd be sorely aware of just how stupid "boosted brain function" can make people.

I wouldn't classify what I take as nootropics, but dietary supplements (I can't eat eggs for the choline).  Exercise isn't going to fix a nutritional defenciency; any benefit to the brain from exercise is short term and transient at best and requires repeated experience just like any drug.  I'm wary too of taking specific brain enhancing drugs like the -racetams.  But as you get older and the labor market becomes increasingly competitive and diversive between intelligence and labor, we may not have much choice but to engage in self-enhancement to keep up.

Machine Ghost

I wouldn't classify what I take as nootropics, but dietary supplements

I see what you mean. I guess I should also make sure I eat enough stuff like eggs and oily fish or whatever.

Lone Wolf wrote: Interesting material.  Since getting into lucid dreaming I'd run across many mentions of choline supplementation for making vivid dreams more likely.

I used to take B vitamins for health, but I quickly learned that taking them just before bed led to dreams that were way too vibrant.
(I don't take any vitamins these days).

dualstow wrote:

Lone Wolf wrote: Interesting material.  Since getting into lucid dreaming I'd run across many mentions of choline supplementation for making vivid dreams more likely.

I used to take B vitamins for health, but I quickly learned that taking them just before bed led to dreams that were way too vibrant.
(I don't take any vitamins these days).

Wow, "too vibrant"!  Did you feel like things were so intense that it interfered with your sleep?  Do you recall what sort of dosages you were taking?