Gyroscopic Investing

Anyone ever use one?

I'm thinking of getting one.

People who use them seem to really like them.

How very Dickensian of you!

I am intrigued.  Do you have any evidence that standing to work is healthier than sitting?

MachineGhost wrote: How very Dickensian of you!

I am intrigued.  Do you have any evidence that standing to work is healthier than sitting?

In my own case I have this leg pain while sitting issue, so if standing could alleviate the leg pain that would be a huge improvement for me.

Google standing desk and health and you will see lots of articles on the health benefits of standing for part of the work day.

It sounds like a great idea, MT. I would just make sure that you move around enough to prevent vascular issues from developing.

I've been researching them a fair amount.  I find that personally, I try to walk around while working as much as possible whenever I'm on a conference call, or something similar.  The really nice ones have a motor that will raise or lower the surface so you can sit or stand.  They are also fairly expensive.

I found a pretty good article on various ways to build one using Ikea furniture for various costs: 

http://priceonomics.com/desks/ikea/#standing-desk

This one seems the most interesting as a $22 standing desk made out of basic Ikea parts:

http://iamnotaprogrammer.com/Ikea-Stand ... llars.html

It seems the health benefits are pretty clear - sitting for 4-6 hours a day seems to shorten lives.  However, I would be cautious because other studies have shown that standing all day is not good either.  Perhaps the best way to live, as usual, is to switch between sitting and standing many times per day, and not spend too much time doing one thing or the other.

My initial thoughts at looking at these standing desks is they provide little to no support for the forearms or shoulders when using a mouse or typing on the keyboard.  Technically, you're not supposed to lay your wrists on a keyboard wrist-rest or other surface when typing, but it is very stressful without any other support not to do so.

For many years I used chairs without arms or which had arms below the level of a desk, requiring me to extend my arm forward on the desk to use the mouse or strain the shoulder/neck to support the entire mouse arm, as well as line-of-sight issues with 21" monitors.  Subsequently, I developed TMJ and chronic neck muscle tension & spasms that have not been resolved to this day, despite better ergonomics and therapy.  For instance, I use a wireless ergonomic keyboard** and sit it in my lap that lets my elbows be supported by the chair arms to hand-type in a more natural fall-down position (http://tinyurl.com/cuwdq6z).  And I use a mouse pad that attaches to the chair arm (http://tinyurl.com/c2qcx3z).  Something like this might be a better solution: http://tinyurl.com/bodbwgu

Chairs themselves seem to be a great tragic farce.  Unless you're willing to spend at least several hundreds of dollars from boutique manufacturers, you will not find cushioning that will last for intensive use (8+ hours a day of sitting).  Even finding arms that are sufficiently padded is a challenge.  Very few chair have really good lumbar support to prevent your posture from getting worse.  The chairs at the office supply stores are all essentially Cheap Chinese Shit, with one issue after another.  So, standing seems like a totally refreshing approach of circumventing the whole enchilada.

** Looks like its been discontinued.  Ught.  For some batshine insane reason, ergonomic keyboards do not sell well in the marketplace.  This was the closest keyboard I could find to the old Microsoft Natural Keyboards that had a more ergonomical separation.

MachineGhost wrote: Subsequently, I developed TMJ and chronic neck muscle tension & spasms that have not been resolved to this day, despite better ergonomics and therapy. 

After more than 35 years programming in front of a computer I'm with you on the neck issues but this is the first I've heard of TMJ. I'm 63 and have a couple of other programmers I work closely with who are about 10 years behind me. The older one has already been in therapy for his neck and the younger complained just the other day that he woke up with a stiff neck, but reasoned to himself that he just slept the wrong way. I told him that unfortunately, this is exactly what I told myself when it first started.

My other issue is my hands. They have gotten so stiff at times I could not play cards because I couldn't hold them in my hand. I went to a doctor for it about 10 years ago and he diagnosed it as arthritis and prescribed a regimen of strong doses of ibuprofen for 30 days. That was one of the rare times in my life when I have actually benefited from a visit to the doctor because it worked. The condition has re-occurred however and I found out on my next visit to another doctor that his treatment may have worked but his diagnosis was wrong as there is no sign of arthritis in my hands. At this point I have no intention of even pursuing this with the tradition medical profession as it seems like they have the attitude that we need to start with colonoscopies, PSA tests, and cholesterol medication before we can even consider what you are actually complaining about.

I've had one of those Microsoft ergonomic keyboards for a few years and I think it has been beneficial. I haven't seen them in the store lately but I didn't know they had been discontinued. My own theory about why it has been beneficial is not because of the ergonomics but just because of the change in hand position. But then I'm not an ergonomist.

I think the idea with stand up desks is not that you stand up full time, but rather that you alternate between standing and sitting, the benefits of which would seem pretty obvious.

I bought one of the items below that allows you to use a regular desk as a stand up desk.  It cost $115.

It is 18" x 30"

We'll see how that goes.

MG, if you notice the cheap Ikea $22 standup desk mod has a shelf attached to the side for your keyboard.  The whole idea is that the keyboard should be at the right level that you can type normally just as you were sitting, while the monitor needs to be higher at eye level.

The real issue with the cheap desks is that you cannot adjust them in height.  I order to get it right you probably need one of the motorized versions because if you are even an inch or two off ideal height, you're going to suffer.

I've used a VESA compliant monitor arm for the last few years and it is great.  You can get your monitor to any height you want, and it doesn't take valuable desk space.

I have several computers. I operate a software business, and am a geek anyway. I have my Mac Mini set up at a standing desk, and my other main Windows PC set up at a sit down workstation. I can easily do anything I want from either system, since I can remotely access all these computers from each other.

Typically, I spend about 2/3 the time standing, and 1/3 sitting.

This works well for me. I can't say that I think better standing or sitting, but I can say it makes the day go by well.

HTH

PS: I wrote this sitting down, but I just finished cleaning house, so I get a break

A group of developers at my friend's company use them. They no longer have back problems. Took about a week to get use to coding while standing up, but apparently they are happy with the results.

MachineGhost wrote: ...
I am intrigued.  Do you have any evidence that standing to work is healthier than sitting?

Here's an infographic that I may have posted in another thread.
http://www.howtogeek.com/93822/sitting- ... fographic/

Hey MT, I happened to see a show that spoke about a treadmill desk being used in a few large business offices. They say that you can walk away 150 calories/hour at a very leisurely pace and I'm guessing that it is very good for your back and legs. I found this one online:

http://www.lifespanfitness.com/treadmil ... -desk.html

MediumTex wrote: Anyone ever use one?

I'm thinking of getting one.

People who use them seem to really like them.

Donald Rumsfeld loved his. Just sayin...

Ad Orientem wrote:

MediumTex wrote: Anyone ever use one?

I'm thinking of getting one.

People who use them seem to really like them.

Donald Rumsfeld loved his. Just sayin...

Although I am not a fan of Rumsfeld as a political figure, in reading accounts of his tenure at the Pentagon he comes across as a tremendously productive and efficient executive.  I'm sure his standing desk helped him get more done.

Reub wrote: I happened to see a show that spoke about a treadmill desk being used in a few large business offices.

I suppose it could be worse...

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joya ... /1736.html

AgAuMoney wrote:

Reub wrote: I happened to see a show that spoke about a treadmill desk being used in a few large business offices.

I suppose it could be worse...

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joya ... /1736.html

For some reason now I have an REM song stuck in my head... "Stand in the place that you work, now face north..."

I received my stand up desk attachment for my regular desk on Tuesday and I have been standing now for four days.

It takes a little getting used to, but it does help me to maintain a higher level of alertness in general.

I have been standing about 80-90% of each day, with a little sitting at my desk and sitting in meetings, lunches, etc.

They say is takes about two weeks for your body to adjust to this kind of standing and I think that's probably about right.

I feel less stiff at the end of the day and I can sit in the evening much more comfortably.

People are getting used to seeing me stand, which is a small hump to get over (you feel weird for a couple of days).

I ordered another one of these attachments for another desk surface in my office.

I really like it.

(The leg pain I wrote about in another thread is gone, which is an enormous relief.)

Would you mind posting a link to the one you purchased?

MediumTex wrote: I really like it.

(The leg pain I wrote about in another thread is gone, which is an enormous relief.)

So what about getting numb or painful feet?  What about clots in your legs?  What are the negatives?

Storm wrote: Would you mind posting a link to the one you purchased?

Here is a link to the manufacturer's site.  They have removed the item from Amazon temporarily because they are a little backed up on production.  I bought a second one straight from the company.

The sides are black like in the photo.  The video has what was apparently an earlier design with gray sides in a different form.

http://store.bargainofficeonline.com/ergostand.html

MachineGhost wrote:

MediumTex wrote: I really like it.

(The leg pain I wrote about in another thread is gone, which is an enormous relief.)

So what about getting numb or painful feet?  What about clots in your legs?  What are the negatives?

In my reading and own experience so far, these are apparently not large concerns.  It seems like there is more risk of blood clots from sitting all the time.

It feels like I am getting a low intensity workout all day long.

The negatives so far are that you do get tired and want to sit down every few hours (I understand that this passes after a couple of weeks).  Your feet do hurt after a while if you don't have a pad to stand on and/or cushioned shoe inserts.

Overall, it's been a good experience so far.

MachineGhost wrote:

MediumTex wrote: I really like it.

(The leg pain I wrote about in another thread is gone, which is an enormous relief.)

So what about getting numb or painful feet?  What about clots in your legs?  What are the negatives?

I looked at using a standing desk though I found this: http://www.hazards.org/standing/. Not sure if this is such a good idea now...

williswine wrote:

MachineGhost wrote:

MediumTex wrote: I really like it.

(The leg pain I wrote about in another thread is gone, which is an enormous relief.)

So what about getting numb or painful feet?  What about clots in your legs?  What are the negatives?

I looked at using a standing desk though I found this: http://www.hazards.org/standing/. Not sure if this is such a good idea now...

"standing is hazardous" "sitting is hazardous", better cover ever possible position and get one of these with a desk attachment....