Gyroscopic Investing

http://ausbullion.blogspot.com.au/2012/ ... -bars.html

tungsten filled gold bars make the news again yesterday

Interesting.

I love that bullion coins already have a built in counterfeit protection. I can't imagine the difficulty of filling a 1oz coin with tungsten while maintaining the coins visual integrity.

melveyr,

How about just minting your own coins coated with gold? 

I've got a post up on this http://www.perthmintbullion.com/blog/bl ... Facts.aspx Perth Mint hasn't seen any fakes pass through it refinery in at least 20 years, so we don't see it as a common problem.

Coins I think are far less likely to be faked without being obvious given the need to get the finish right plus the thinness of the coin means gold plating is probably what would be required (which would be picked up by XRF).

bronsuchecki good blog post, thanks for linking it..  i don't think fakes are a overly large concern for most pp investors, most of what is held tends to be recognized coin from reputable dealers, and many of those that buy often from smaller dealers have already have a fisch (and some are experimenting with sound testing). i am glad to hear its not a common industry problem for those who do deal with bars...

Thanks for the post, Bron. It's interesting read about the recycling of gold from a real mint's perspective. I wrote about this topic again last year as well that mirrors what you have to say after people wrote me about it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160324133 ... fake-gold/

1. Use a simple measuring device like the Fisch Tool, or a Gold Coin Balance. These tools check the dimensions of common coins and the weight. A fake coin will not likely have the density of real gold so it will be difficult to pass these quick checks.

2. Don't buy any gold bullion off of places like E-Bay and definitely nothing out of Asia. E-Bay has many fraudulent items for sale (not just gold) and is basically full of con artists. Ordering gold out of places like Hong Kong or mainland China is just asking to get ripped off.

3. Only buy from well established coin dealers. It is unlikely these dealers are going to allow fake gold bullion to enter their inventory. This is another layer of protection for you and is worth the small premiums they charge.

4. If a deal is too good to be true it probably is. Anyone selling gold for below market spot price is probably a con artist.

5. Stick to well-known gold bullion coins like American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs or South African Krugerrands [and for Bron, Kangaroos]. They are well established and known by dealers who sell them.

6. Don't buy collectable coins or numismatic coins. There is more incentive to fake "rare" coins to sell to people that don't know any better. Collectable coins are almost always a complete waste of money as they contain little precious metal content.

China Tungsten is doing gold plated tungsten coins and jewelry, but the chances of this fooling a gold dealer are probably not that good.

http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy11.htm

Check out their "paperweight" section:

http://www.paper-weight.cn/products-show.html

l82start wrote: http://ausbullion.blogspot.com.au/2012/ ... -bars.html

tungsten filled gold bars make the news again yesterday

The link doesn't work by some reason. I've found another article with actual pictures of the bar cut in half.

http://lewrockwell.com/wenzel/wenzel169.html

thanks, they seem to have taken it down.. maybe it is to popular a story for a small blog to handle the traffic??

CraigR wrote:Don't buy any gold bullion off of places like E-Bay... E-Bay has many fraudulent items for sale (not just gold) and is basically full of con artists.

I have made hundreds of purchases from EBay and generally found the sellers to be anything but "con artists."  Are there con artists?  Sure, just like there are in any market.  I have purchased fake coins on EBay that were represented to be the genuine article, one gold coin and several silver.  In every case (at least four transactions, as I recall) the seller refunded the full purchase price.

I detected the fakes with simple tools.  A magnifying glass, a magnet, scales, caliper, and knowledge of what the real thing should look like and what the specifications are.  I now do ring tests.  I have a "magnet slide".  I have read about paramagetic (tungsten) and diamagetic (silver and gold) properties of materials.

So I agree that you need to use some tools to check on the authenticity of your bullion purchases.  But the Fisch or the other balance devices are just a good first step.  Training wheels, if you will.

If you are going to hold physical gold you need to educate yourself about your investment, regardless of where you make your purchases.  Relying on the expertise of a coin/bullion dealer, the veracity of EBay sellers, or anyone else is a recipe for a bad outcome.

Caveat emptor - always.

WildAboutHarry wrote:

CraigR wrote:Don't buy any gold bullion off of places like E-Bay... E-Bay has many fraudulent items for sale (not just gold) and is basically full of con artists.

I have made hundreds of purchases from EBay and generally found the sellers to be anything but "con artists."  Are there con artists?  Sure, just like there are in any market.  I have purchased fake coins on EBay that were represented to be the genuine article, one gold coin and several silver.  In every case (at least four transactions, as I recall) the seller refunded the full purchase price.

I detected the fakes with simple tools.  A magnifying glass, a magnet, scales, caliper, and knowledge of what the real thing should look like and what the specifications are.  I now do ring tests.  I have a "magnet slide".  I have read about paramagetic (tungsten) and diamagetic (silver and gold) properties of materials.

So I agree that you need to use some tools to check on the authenticity of your bullion purchases.  But the Fisch or the other balance devices are just a good first step.  Training wheels, if you will.

If you are going to hold physical gold you need to educate yourself about your investment, regardless of where you make your purchases.  Relying on the expertise of a coin/bullion dealer, the veracity of EBay sellers, or anyone else is a recipe for a bad outcome.

Caveat emptor - always.

Not trying to imply everyone on E-Bay is a con artist, but certain high value items do bring out certain kinds of people more than others.

I have bought and sold hundreds of items on E-Bay and, oddly enough, I was involved with a small importing business focusing on Asia for a while. The importing business taught me a bit about asian antiques and I can say that virtually all such items on E-Bay are frauds. However, they sell a ton of that stuff there. So yes, caveat emptor!

So I suppose it's what your expertise can handle. Generally if you have the skills to detect fakes then E-Bay is an option. But since I'm asked this question from time to time by people that aren't experts I simply tell them to work with a legit coin dealer and they are far less likely to have potential problems.

Re: Ring test.

Someone posted about an iPhone audio spectrum analyzer app that looks like a neat way to put in a fifth check on a coin: Diameter, width, weight, magnetism and audio spectrum.

With those five checks the chances of getting a fake, even if it had tungsten, I'd think would be very small.