Gyroscopic Investing

Have any of you PP investors out there ever moved from one geographical area to another (say, more than a few hundred miles away) and had a non-trivial amount of gold in a safety deposit box at the time?

If so, I'm assuming you decided to bring most or all of your gold with you to your new place of residence in order to keep the bulk of your physical gold within driving distance.

Given that most of us who hold gold in safety deposit boxes do so because we're nervous about holding most of it at home, did it make you feel vulnerable or anxious to temporarily hold all that gold outside of safety deposit boxes during the move?

Although I don't yet own all that much physical gold, it's enough to make me feel nervous moving it to a different geographical location. The only way I'd feel comfortable doing it would most likely be to hold all of it in my pockets the whole time until everything was unloaded into the new place. If I were to get mugged at any point during the move, I would lose a lot of money.

Maybe the best approach in a situation like this would be to use one of the "discreet transport" methods we've discussed in other threads, such as taping some of the coins to the inside of one's belt, putting a few of the coins in one's socks, etc. I could also have my wife carry some of the coins so they're not all on me.

If anyone has ever used a different method to move the bulk of their physical gold from one geographical area to another, or has one in mind in case such a move should ever be necessary, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

Tortoise,

If your gold is insured your coverage does (or can) extend to transporting a fixed amount of gold ($50,000 in the sample policy provided by Gumby, I think).

Seems a good reason to buy insurance.

i don't know if i would recommend it, but i moved with some in a lock box buried under piles of boxes and luggage, since i drove straight through, stayed on major freeways, and only stopped for gas and fast food (never leaving the car without somebody in it) i wasn't terribly paranoid about it, nobody knew what i had, i don't drive a flash car, and in all my years of traveling i have never been carjacked, (not even in bad neighborhoods much less on freeways)..  i didn't think the odds of it happening that time were any higher than any other trip i have taken...

l82start wrote: i don't know if i would recommend it, but i moved with some in a lock box buried under piles of boxes and luggage, since i drove straight through, stayed on major freeways, and only stopped for gas and fast food (never leaving the car without somebody in it) i wasn't terribly paranoid about it, nobody knew what i had, i don't drive a flash car, and in all my years of traveling i have never been carjacked, (not even in bad neighborhoods much less on freeways)..  i didn't think the odds of it happening that time were any higher than any other trip i have taken...

That sounds reasonable on the surface, but one thing that keeps nagging at me is that this same rationale is why some people think it's safe to go for a month or two without health insurance. ("I've lived my entire life so far free of catastrophic injuries or health issues, so what's the probability of something really bad happening to me within the next month or two? Practically zero.")

The problem is, if that black swan does appear, you're screwed. So I see this as a "fat tail minimization" problem. To minimize fat tails, you protect yourself based not on the probability of the undesirable outcome--which may be vanishingly small--but rather to limit the worst-case magnitude of the outcome in the extremely unlikely event that it were to occur.

Realistically, I think my physical gold holdings are still small enough not to be completely catastrophic if I were to lose them. It would be very painful, but not catastrophic. So if I use your approach, I'm probably not taking on an insane level of risk. But if my physical gold holdings were 2 or 3 times what they currently are, it sounds like the most prudent approach for me would probably be to insure them prior to moving them.

Thanks for the ideas, everyone!

i don't disagree one bit.... in this case the amounts involved were inside my manageable risk levels , if i had to carry more, or i if drove a top ten favorite model for car thief's, or had car accessory's that made it a target, or didn't know the route well etc... the calculation would be different, and i might not do it the way i did...

Would getting an insured courier be the most black swan avoiding method? Let's imagine some robber did get to know that you were going to be transporting your gold. Getting seriously hurt in a robbery would be worse than anything money could compensate for. I don't have a clue about the logistics of getting such a courier. These kinds of worries are what put me off getting gold coins rather than just a (sort of) gold ETF.
I have been robbed a couple of times in the street but it was no big deal because I clearly was someone unlikely to have anything of value so (for the robbers) each incident was presumably a casual scuffle. If someone knew that you had a lot of value on you; things could be very different.

Another option is to bite the bullet and accept the bid/ask spread as a cost of doing business. You could sell your bullion in your original location and re-buy it in your new location.

Or at least do this with some of your gold, and use a mixture of some of the other options mentioned.

EDIT: Might not be tax efficient if you have gains though...

The most important thing would be to make sure no one knew you were transporting it.

If no one knows you are transporting it, it seems like the risk is pretty small.

How would the bad guys even know what they were looking for?

"Okay dude, give me all your money, and I want you to open that medium sized roller bag and remove that shaving kit and I want you to remove the large pill bottle that weighs a lot and give it to me."

Seems unlikely, though I realize that anything can happen.

If you're not exceptionally wealthy nor driving too terribly far, I suppose that the gold could be moved South Korean style.

Lone Wolf wrote: If you're not exceptionally wealthy nor driving too terribly far, I suppose that the gold could be moved South Korean style.

Duly noted, LW

Maybe I'll just melt down my coins and plate my car with them. Hiding in plain sight! It's so crazy it just might work.

Didn't Goldfinger do that in the novel of the same name?  I guess he painted over the gold, though.

Are you moving in the wintertime? A friend of mine from Italy had a huge amount of cash sewn into his winter coat before taking an international flight. I know what you're thinking- an Italian dodging taxes? But it's true I tell you. He was pretty nervous, but made it through.
Of course, one of the primary rules is not to put your valuables in something that might be stolen itself, so if you're travelling by car, you don't want to sew your gold into too nice a coat. Maybe you could sew it into a babyseat- who'd steal that?

If I amass a large amount of coins and then we find that we want to move someday, I think I'd feel safest taking more than one trip to move the coins. I'd leave some in a bank safety deposit box and get them later. Until I get the last of it, it's just geographic diversification.

dualstow wrote: If I amass a large amount of coins and then we find that we want to move someday, I think I'd feel safest taking more than one trip to move the coins. I'd leave some in a bank safety deposit box and get them later. Until I get the last of it, it's just geographic diversification.

That reminds me of the Mitch Hedberg line:

An escalator can never break.  It can only become stairs.

Tortoise wrote: Maybe I'll just melt down my coins and plate my car with them. Hiding in plain sight! It's so crazy it just might work.

I think your car would eventually go the route of Joe Pesci's Corvette in "The Super."

If you've seen that, one of many hilarious scenes has him circling what is left of his Corvette in a ghetto neighborhood that he was court-ordered to spend his time in... NOTHING remains of the car but the frame...  Stunned and terrified, Joe Pesci's character lays his hand on the edge of the fender... and the alarm goes off.

MediumTex wrote:

dualstow wrote: If I amass a large amount of coins and then we find that we want to move someday, I think I'd feel safest taking more than one trip to move the coins. I'd leave some in a bank safety deposit box and get them later. Until I get the last of it, it's just geographic diversification.

That reminds me of the Mitch Hedberg line:

An escalator can never break.  It can only become stairs.

Hedberg was great. I miss him dearly.

This is a really good topic for discussion.  I haven't had the problem but if I did here are some thoughts on how to move physical gold.

1. Don't advertise your moving it to anyone.  Don't close your safe deposit box when you get your gold so no one in the bank knows you have emptied it.
2. If its is a relatively small amount (less than 10 coins) I would probably just stash it somewhere and take it with me.
3. For more substantial quantities I would ship it via USPS Registered Mail.  That's extremely safe.  You can arrange insurance either through the Post Office or buy a short term policy just to cover the shipping.  It should not be terribly expensive.
4. For very substantial quantities (middle six figures or higher) I would engage a security firm to handle the shipment (Brinks armored truck etc.).

Ad Orientem wrote: 4. For very substantial quantities (middle six figures or higher) I would engage a security firm to handle the shipment (Brinks armored truck etc.).

Really? I think I'd be paranoid about having an armored truck show up for all to see. I'd rather get really creative and put the coins in a bag of potting soil, which is already expected to be heavy. Or under the newspaper lining a cat carrier.

Of course, if I got carjacked, that'd be the end of my coins.

dualstow wrote:

Ad Orientem wrote: 4. For very substantial quantities (middle six figures or higher) I would engage a security firm to handle the shipment (Brinks armored truck etc.).

Really? I think I'd be paranoid about having an armored truck show up for all to see. I'd rather get really creative and put the coins in a bag of potting soil, which is already expected to be heavy. Or under the newspaper lining a cat carrier.

Of course, if I got carjacked, that'd be the end of my coins.

Armored trucks at banks are a pretty common sight.  I doubt it would draw any undue attention.  On the other hand I have no idea how you would get a large bag of potting soil into a bank... and then the vault, without raising a few eyebrows.

Ad Orientem wrote:  On the other hand I have no idea how you would get a large bag of potting soil into a bank... and then the vault, without raising a few eyebrows.

Oh, I was referring to the OP, who is (hypothetically) driving himself.
The bag would go from the old house to the new house by car.

dualstow wrote:

Ad Orientem wrote:  On the other hand I have no idea how you would get a large bag of potting soil into a bank... and then the vault, without raising a few eyebrows.

Oh, I was referring to the OP, who is (hypothetically) driving himself.
The bag would go from the old house to the new house by car.

Perhaps you could have a drop bear ride shotgun for an additional layer of security.

I only live in states that allow concealed firearms carry.

I don't tell people about what my net worth is.

I don't tell people when I am transporting gold coins.

I don't look like someone that is easy prey to a criminal.

In summary, get a CCW, carry a gun, go to the gym, and keep your mouth shut and you will reduce 99%+ of possible threats. 

Ancient Chinese proverb:

"A wise merchant appears penniless."

MediumTex wrote: Ancient Chinese proverb:

"A wise merchant appears penniless."

Kind of like Mugatu's "Derelicte" fashion concept from the movie "Zoolander"... I like it!

(2-minute clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOBAEa9wn8

Great discussion. I especially like Ad Orientem's concise summary of options based roughly on the amount of gold to be transported. Seems very logical.

Triple B, your description made me think of Robert de Neiro in Taxi Driver saying "you looking at me?" .

TripleB wrote: I don't look like someone that is easy prey to a criminal.

It's true.  For whatever reason, criminals tend to avoid TripleB.  I'm not sure why that is.

In fact, here's a photo of me, Lone Wolf, helping TripleB move some of his boxes the last time he changed apartments.