Gyroscopic Investing

I was considering using a depository to shield my gold from taxable events while keeping it safe in my old age and cognitive decline. The one in question charges 0.5% per annum. I did a present value analysis of the fees over time, even just assuming gold only grows with inflation, the fee harvests a large % of the asset after many years, it's worse than just paying the collectibles tax now even with my basis at $1250 and converting to ETF (I have no desire to debate gold ETFs at this time... that's something an old person might have to do to simplify things for easy management by the kids). It's like investment advisor fees - poison.

I can't argue. I am thankful for GLDM and IAUM. I am happy enough to split between the two to balance some risk and to support them both.

ochotona wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:38 pm
I was considering using a depository to shield my gold from taxable events while keeping it safe in my old age and cognitive decline. The one in question charges 0.5% per annum. I did a present value analysis of the fees over time, even just assuming gold only grows with inflation, the fee harvests a large % of the asset after many years, it's worse than just paying the collectibles tax now even with my basis at $1250 and converting to ETF (I have no desire to debate gold ETFs at this time... that's something an old person might have to do to simplify things for easy management by the kids). It's like investment advisor fees - poison.

No reason it should be any different.

0.5% is the same no matter who is taking it for what reason.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:53 pm
No reason it should be any different.

0.5% is the same no matter who is taking it for what reason.

Never let the tax tail wag the investment dog...

The real issue I suppose is how does an old person get gold across the country from one safe deposit box to another if relocating to be closer to kids and possibly going into assisted living? That elder isn't going to drive... I don't think they want to take, say, 60 oz of gold through TSA checkpoints {shudder}.

Not that I have 60 oz, I did, however, have a very devastating boating accident.

But how do I send such a package across the USA and insure it for $120,000 at today's gold prices, and who knows how much in years to come? Do UPS / FedEx / DHL have special desks which handle high-value shipments like this? I guess they must. Any first-hand experiences?

ochotona wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:02 pm
But how do I send such a package across the USA and insure it for $120,000 at today's gold prices, and who knows how much in years to come? Do UPS / FedEx / DHL have special desks which handle high-value shipments like this? I guess they must. Any first-hand experiences?

Cannot comment on safety deposit boxes, but some depositories organise secure shipping. Have used Perth Mints services before with no issues.

ochotona wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:02 pm The real issue I suppose is how does an old person get gold across the country from one safe deposit box to another if relocating to be closer to kids and possibly going into assisted living? That elder isn't going to drive... I don't think they want to take, say, 60 oz of gold through TSA checkpoints {shudder}.

Not that I have 60 oz, I did, however, have a very devastating boating accident.

But how do I send such a package across the USA and insure it for $120,000 at today's gold prices, and who knows how much in years to come? Do UPS / FedEx / DHL have special desks which handle high-value shipments like this? I guess they must. Any first-hand experiences?

Bitcoin is likely a superior option as a self-custody asset for such a scenario.

Smith1776 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:29 pm Bitcoin is likely a superior option as a self-custody asset for such a scenario.

I'm not disputing that, however, I have the gold already. I don't want taxable events.

What I discovered:

USPS Registered Mail up to $250,000 per shipment available coverage

FedEx Express First Overnight between the two Express Stations from origin to destination (but it's not insured, so it's a bit of a Hail Mary --- tranche it?)

UPS Supply Chain Solutions Constant Surveillance Service (courier in the jump seat in the aircraft cockpit with the item)

Brinks, Loomis

DIY ideas:

Drive it yourself in a car

Take an AMTRAK train, get a private sleeper compartment, keep a backpack on with the gold when I leave for meals. This is actually my favorite. I like trains.

Diversify your gold, third in-hand, third in a remote (Bullion)vault, third in a form that can be easily converted to bitcoin (Paxos)

In hand self-insured 0% overheads. BullionVault indicative 0.33% year if held for 5 years (inclusive of buy/sell and insurance). Paxos somewhat similar overheads. Collective 0.2%/year type cost/overhead.

Physical transportation for me would be more inclined to cross international borders, better to sell and repurchase at the target destination, 3% round trip cost, which if a third of total gold = 1%, which if a quarter of total portfolio = 0.25%.

Hi all, been a while!

Ocho, I have used this company for about 5 months and successfully have sent them a number of physical shipments. The company has been around a while, and the CEO has a good reputation in the gold community.

I have been sitting on my gold and silver for 15+ years. I figured I'd give this "yield on gold paid in gold" a shot. Could it be a Madoff type scheme? I suppose.

At a minimum it has pooled my gold and is secure, theoretically.

It has taken a mind shift for me. While I don't have any issues have lots of money in a bank, at a brokerage, in various ETFs, bonds, etc, sending gold through the mail was really hard and worries me every single time. But it is fully insured.

https://monetary-metals.com/

What's wrong with 0.5% storage fee for segregated gold storage? That's a great price, as usually segregated storage is more like 1% or even more. And remember it includes insurance. Coincidentally that's what Texas Bullion Depository charges.

There's only 2 ways to beat this price. One is to invest in gold ETFs with ERs less than 0.5%. That's been discussed here already and there are reasons both for and against that choice. You will only do slightly better than 0.5% though. And, that kind of "paper gold" cannot really be compared to segregated storage. If part of your goal is privacy, you won't get it with the gold ETF option.

The other way is to store your gold at home without insuring it. That's of course zero carrying cost, but it's also a tad risky. I wouldn't advise that for more than a small stash that won't be a disaster if you lose it in a burglary or fire. A safe deposit box is probably safer on average, but it's got its risks too - these have been discussed in past threads.

If you decide to insure gold stored either at home or in a safe deposit box, the cost is going to be more than 0.5%. Probably a lot more.

Perhaps the right approach is to make judicious (and limited) use of gold ETFs, store a few coins at home, and keep the rest in a storage vault.

https://www.morningstar.com/bonds/big-y ... tent=49785

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Russel Kinnel
Nov 10, 2023

Someone I knew used to buy 35 pound pails of junk silver coins from a national PM dealer. They were shipped USPS Insured by the dealer.