Gyroscopic Investing

Anyone see this "documentary" on the effects of the Covid vaccines yet?

Has this been discussed here before?

Four people at my office died "suddenly" in the last 6 weeks, all men. At least 3 of them were 40-45 years old, not sure about the 4th guy. All sudden, heart attacks at night or over the weekend.

We have a 3rd party that comes in and does grief counseling. They are here again today for 4 hours for the latest guy. I have never seen this in 15+ years working here but now it's happening constantly.

You have to be vaccinated to work here or have medical/religious exemption due to the Biden admin mandate. The company was doing on-site injections a year ago.

Sorry to hear about your coworkers.

I think everyone here finally burned out on covid and related topics several months ago (or more). I do remember that at one point, maybe even before the vaccines rolled out, that excess mortality was a frequent topic of discussion. It would be interesting to go back to the sources of some of the graphs that were shared to see what they look like with an additional year or two of data.

Some reports said that certain batches of the vaccine had more side effects than other batches. The batch used in your on-site injections may have been a bad one.

When my mid-50s age wife went for her OB-GYN exam, her long-time doctor with an excellent reputation in our medium-size city asked her if she had received the Covid vaccine. She said no, expecting to get a sermon on why she should get it. Instead in a soft voice he recommended that she stay unvaccinated because in his opinion not enough testing had been done yet. It didn't really matter to her, because she wasn't interested anyway, but it was nice to know that some medical people still can think for themselves. We immediately made an appointment for our 18-year-old daughter to see him, and he signed a vaccine exemption form so she wouldn't have to get vaccinated to attend our local college.

From what I've heard, I think our experience with this doctor was very rare, but I don't really know. I think most of them just go along with the party line. I went in for a physical exam a few weeks ago with a new doctor. I told him I wasn't interested in the vaccine because I don't believe enough testing has been done, and I think the emergency approval was politically influenced, and with new strains constantly mutating the vaccine will always be behind the curve. He said it was like being in a burning high-rise and having the choice to burn or jump down to a trampoline. Which would you choose? I pointed out that my chances of burning without jumping would be 100%, but my chances of dying from covid are like 0.0001%, so his analogy was stupid. He didn't push it after that, and we ended up getting along fine in the end, which was a pleasant surprise.

Sounds quite conspiratorial and might undermine the reasonable (and abundant) anti-mandate arguments

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/23/die ... ew-peters/

Sorta related, a debate with Gladwell about trusting Leftist media

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vkgROIINEs

heh, Canadian state media just posted this, and are getting roasted "Increased heart failure linked to extreme hot and cold"

https://twitter.com/CTVNews/status/1602418095431290883

I dunno, if you give billions of injections, and many hit a blood vessel, you'll have some problems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVXA9posslo

Do you know whether the four people in your office who died received the boosters in addition to the original two shot vaccine? Including the most recent "bi-valent" booster?

My PCP seemed to be a little skeptical about the need for the most recent booster, but we didn't have a long conversation about it.

In all, I think the most vaccinated among us would have the original two shot, plus three boosters so vaxxed x5. And the least vaxxed has had 0.

I've often wondered whether anyone has studied the cumulative effect of multiple vaccines/boosters. I could see where they would study the vaccine in a vacuum, but is there a difference in a person who has had 1, 2 or more doses already? Do the differences in formulations matter? What about the time in between receiving doses? You can see how quickly what seems like a simple question becomes really complicated.

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:17 am Do you know whether the four people in your office who died received the boosters in addition to the original two shot vaccine? Including the most recent "bi-valent" booster?

My PCP seemed to be a little skeptical about the need for the most recent booster, but we didn't have a long conversation about it.

In all, I think the most vaccinated among us would have the original two shot, plus three boosters so vaxxed x5. And the least vaxxed has had 0.

I've often wondered whether anyone has studied the cumulative effect of multiple vaccines/boosters. I could see where they would study the vaccine in a vacuum, but is there a difference in a person who has had 1, 2 or more doses already? Do the differences in formulations matter? What about the time in between receiving doses? You can see how quickly what seems like a simple question becomes really complicated.

There are some studies out there...at the end of the day covid is a virus and it does what viruses do...mutates. "Science" would say the same reason you get an annual flu shot is the same reason you get a periodic covid shot. (Prevention or mitigation of symptoms for a constantly mutating virus that makes you sick.) For me, I'm going to get both annually. And, I would imagine, going forward some years both shots together or separately will be very effective in preventing or mitigating symptoms and in other years not as well because the best guess as to what strain to target for mass production ends up being off. And like flu shots, if you are young and healthy you can probably opt out and even if you get one or both viruses, not a big deal. If you're older or have medical complications, maybe that's not such a great choice.

Of course a difference is the use of mRNA technology for the covid vaccine. Likely mRNA is going to stay as a thing. An mRNA approach by Moderna to treating skin cancer is in early trial stage showing success.

There are quite a few articles using a google search that a layman can understand describing how mRNA vaccines differ from traditional "dead/weakened virus" vaccines and what their advantages are. Assuming we all don't die suddenly, grow a second head or get heinous forms of cancer, this technology is here to stay.

Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:37 am
There are some studies out there...at the end of the day covid is a virus and it does what viruses do...mutates. "Science" would say the same reason you get an annual flu shot is the same reason you get a periodic covid shot. (Prevention or mitigation of symptoms for a constantly mutating virus that makes you sick.) For me, I'm going to get both annually. And, I would imagine, going forward some years both shots together or separately will be very effective in preventing or mitigating symptoms and in other years not as well because the best guess as to what strain to target for mass production ends up being off. And like flu shots, if you are young and healthy you can probably opt out and even if you get one or both viruses, not a big deal. If you're older or have medical complications, maybe that's not such a great choice.

Of course a difference is the use of mRNA technology for the covid vaccine. Likely mRNA is going to stay as a thing. An mRNA approach by Moderna to treating skin cancer is in early trial stage showing success.

There are quite a few articles using a google search that a layman can understand describing how mRNA vaccines differ from traditional "dead/weakened virus" vaccines and what their advantages are. Assuming we all don't die suddenly, grow a second head or get heinous forms of cancer, this technology is here to stay.

To be clear, I'm certainly not anti-vaxx or vaxx hesitant for that matter. However I'm not a passionate pro-vaxx person either. In our case, my wife has had a bad reaction to the original vaccine and one of the boosters. The reaction was intense inflammatory headaches for about three weeks post jab. The headaches were bad enough to be debilitating and the PCP was no help. For a while it was scary not knowing whether the condition would improve. So there's some hesitancy in our house, but only due to her experiences and not wanting it to happen again.

Interestingly I just returned from a trip overseas to SE Asia with a group of 10 guys. All of us were vaccinated, but I noticed there was a camp of proud wear-on-your-sleeve "I'm vaxxed x5" sub-group. The rest of us were all somewhere between vaxxed x2 and higher and a bit quieter about it. Vaxx x3 for me, meaning one booster.
Three out of the group got Covid and all three were in the proud vaxx x5 cohort. Yes, I know, small sample group, probably not meaningful. But still ironic.
Thankfully all three cases were mild symptoms, which is probably attributable to the vaccines. One guy's case took 9 days to test negative so his case was mild but hung on for a while. Poor guy was stuck in a hotel room in Hanoi during that time, quarantining.

Here's a chart of excess mortality in the US, 2015 - Present:

https://www.usmortality.com/excess-mortality/percentage

The age range filters are kind of interesting.

Yes, the age-range filters are very interesting. The 24-44 year olds had a big jump in excess mortality for about 7 months starting in July 2021. Is there any explanation for that? When did the covid vaccines roll out? It's a good thing they got the vaccine, because obviously covid was a big problem for them. Oh wait, let me take another look at the graph before July 2021. It certainly makes me wonder who you can trust to give you truthful information about the safety of the covid vaccine.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:15 pm Yes, the age-range filters are very interesting. The 24-44 year olds had a big jump in excess mortality for about 7 months starting in July 2021. Is there any explanation for that? When did the covid vaccines roll out? It's a good thing they got the vaccine, because obviously covid was a big problem for them. Oh wait, let me take another look at the graph before July 2021. It certainly makes me wonder who you can trust to give you truthful information about the safety of the covid vaccine.

First Vax for me was the end of January, 2021.

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:57 am To be clear, I'm certainly not anti-vaxx or vaxx hesitant for that matter.

Also to be clear, I do not want to reopen the board Covid wars. My intent was to post something I had read a week or so back. And, to simply say covid is a virus like flu is a virus, at a basic level their behaviors are the same, and as a result the medical approach is going to be similar.

Apologies all around, slamming the door (hard) behind me lest Pandora escape again.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:15 pm Yes, the age-range filters are very interesting. The 24-44 year olds had a big jump in excess mortality for about 7 months starting in July 2021. Is there any explanation for that? When did the covid vaccines roll out? It's a good thing they got the vaccine, because obviously covid was a big problem for them. Oh wait, let me take another look at the graph before July 2021. It certainly makes me wonder who you can trust to give you truthful information about the safety of the covid vaccine.

Timelines are available with a google search...most likely related to the Delta variant which has been the most lethal of the variants thus far. (multiple web hits noting Delta)

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:17 am Do you know whether the four people in your office who died received the boosters in addition to the original two shot vaccine? Including the most recent "bi-valent" booster?

I don't know anything about their vaccination status other than something like 98% of our staff took it in one form or another due to the mandate and the company was doing lots of on-site injections exactly 12 months ago right before the mandate kicked in.

If you didn't get an exemption (I know many people who gave up on it because it was so onerous) you either got jabbed or were fired.

Given that these guys were all young, I assume they more than likely were last-minute types who would have taken the on-site jab at the company rather than go out and get it beforehand. At least they would have been more likely.

Regardless, it's very, very strange to have this many young guys just die "suddenly" at our office. I've been here 16 years actually as of Dec 11th and never seen anything like this. We've lost a few young people in that time but it was usually a car accident or something. In fact I can only think of one person in that time but I'm sure there were a couple more.

Obviously this is anecdotal but with that movie coming out and all the other things I'm hearing (maybe you guys are too) of skyrocketing miscarriage's and still births and young people dying unexpectedly, it's making me scratch my head.

I'll keep you guys informed if we lose more people in a similar fashion. Any more and someone here is going to have to investigate whether they all got the same batch of vaccine on-site which I think was Pfizer.

There are websites such as How Bad is my Batch that allow you to check your batch number against the VAERS database. Of course there will be varying opinions on the value of all of that.

Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:43 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:57 am To be clear, I'm certainly not anti-vaxx or vaxx hesitant for that matter.

Also to be clear, I do not want to reopen the board Covid wars. My intent was to post something I had read a week or so back. And, to simply say covid is a virus like flu is a virus, at a basic level their behaviors are the same, and as a result the medical approach is going to be similar.

Apologies all around, slamming the door (hard) behind me lest Pandora escape again.

No worries, I might have misinterpreted what you were saying.
Murphy's law (get it? I crack myself up)

I’ve also stopped at 3. It seems unwise to keep stacking them. However I am open to an annual shot. Just not now.

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:17 am
Do you know whether the four people in your office who died received the boosters in addition to the original two shot vaccine? Including the most recent "bi-valent" booster?

My PCP seemed to be a little skeptical about the need for the most recent booster, but we didn't have a long conversation about it.

In all, I think the most vaccinated among us would have the original two shot, plus three boosters so vaxxed x5. And the least vaxxed has had 0.

I've often wondered whether anyone has studied the cumulative effect of multiple vaccines/boosters. I could see where they would study the vaccine in a vacuum, but is there a difference in a person who has had 1, 2 or more doses already? Do the differences in formulations matter? What about the time in between receiving doses? You can see how quickly what seems like a simple question becomes really complicated.

I had the first two and then the first booster last year. Then the second booster this year. Also got my first flu shot ever last year and then my second one ever a few weeks ago.

I want to get that third booster but it has not risen to a priority / concern level to take the time or the inconvenience to get it. I tried to get it one day while I was at Stop and Shop but they told me to either make an appointment or come back in a few hours, neither of which I did.

Between those four covid shots and two flu shots (I think last year I got both the covid and flu shot the same day) I've had just about zero reaction. The worst I felt was when I lifted up on my left arm and I could feel some slight pain in the area of the shot.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:47 pm
I had the first two and then the first booster last year. Then the second booster this year. Also got my first flu shot ever last year and then my second one ever a few weeks ago.

I want to get that third booster but it has not risen to a priority / concern level to take the time or the inconvenience to get it. I tried to get it one day while I was at Stop and Shop but they told me to either make an appointment or come back in a few hours, neither of which I did.

Between those four covid shots and two flu shots (I think last year I got both the covid and flu shot the same day) I've had just about zero reaction. The worst I felt was when I lifted up on my left arm and I could feel some slight pain in the area of the shot.

Rewrite using Iambic Pentameter.

I had the first two and then a first booster last year,
Follow'd by a second booster this year too, I hear.
Last year was my first ever flu shot, and so
Just weeks ago I got my second one, you know.

I had thought of getting that third booster, but 'twas
Not important enough to take the time or fuss.
One day I stopped off at Stop and Shop, yet still
They said to make an appointment or come back will.

Between those four covid shots and two flu shots last
Year - both taken on the same day - I felt no blast.
My arm was sore when moved in certain ways, that's true,
But that was the worst of what I had to rue.

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:50 pm

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:47 pm

I had the first two and then the first booster last year. Then the second booster this year. Also got my first flu shot ever last year and then my second one ever a few weeks ago.

I want to get that third booster but it has not risen to a priority / concern level to take the time or the inconvenience to get it. I tried to get it one day while I was at Stop and Shop but they told me to either make an appointment or come back in a few hours, neither of which I did.

Between those four covid shots and two flu shots (I think last year I got both the covid and flu shot the same day) I've had just about zero reaction. The worst I felt was when I lifted up on my left arm and I could feel some slight pain in the area of the shot.

Rewrite using Iambic Pentameter.

I had the first two and then a first booster last year,
Follow'd by a second booster this year too, I hear.
Last year was my first ever flu shot, and so
Just weeks ago I got my second one, you know.

I had thought of getting that third booster, but 'twas
Not important enough to take the time or fuss.
One day I stopped off at Stop and Shop, yet still
They said to make an appointment or come back will.

Between those four covid shots and two flu shots last
Year - both taken on the same day - I felt no blast.
My arm was sore when moved in certain ways, that's true,
But that was the worst of what I had to rue.

Well done! Even though I am completely inept at what you just did .... does not mean I cannot appreciate a master doing a well done job!

yankees60 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:32 am Well done! Even though I am completely inept at what you just did .... does not mean I cannot appreciate a master doing a well done job!

No talent on my part, other than the request. The work was done by GPT-3.

COVID-19 vaccine update re new studies in the link:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substac ... dium=email

Bottom line

The fall boosters work. There is now evidence fall boosters broaden protection, help against infection, protect against severe disease, and (we think and hope) provide longer protection. There is one major problem though: more than 150 million people are eligible for a fall booster in the U.S. and have yet to get one.

Love, YLE

“Your Local Epidemiologist (YLE)” is written by Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, MPH PhD—an epidemiologist, data scientist, wife, and mom of two little girls.

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:52 pm
COVID-19 vaccine update re new studies in the link:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substac ... dium=email

Bottom line

The fall boosters work. There is now evidence fall boosters broaden protection, help against infection, protect against severe disease, and (we think and hope) provide longer protection. There is one major problem though: more than 150 million people are eligible for a fall booster in the U.S. and have yet to get one.

Love, YLE

“Your Local Epidemiologist (YLE)” is written by Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, MPH PhD—an epidemiologist, data scientist, wife, and mom of two little girls.

1. I take it you endorse this?
2. Have you had yours yet?
3. You presenting this here has raised my sense of urgency and priority to get mine .... though I am living such a super isolated life these days it seems almost impossible to catch anything. But once I get by some things I have been working on day and night I will be more social.

"There is one major problem though: more than 150 million people are eligible for a fall booster in the U.S. and have yet to get one."

That's THEIR problem. Not mine or yours. Get your jabs and masks and protect yourself.

edit1: oh she's one of those cheerleaders https://www.instagram.com/your_local_epidemiologist/

yankees60 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:22 pm

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:52 pm COVID-19 vaccine update re new studies in the link:

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substac ... dium=email

Bottom line

The fall boosters work. There is now evidence fall boosters broaden protection, help against infection, protect against severe disease, and (we think and hope) provide longer protection. There is one major problem though: more than 150 million people are eligible for a fall booster in the U.S. and have yet to get one.

Love, YLE

“Your Local Epidemiologist (YLE)” is written by Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, MPH PhD—an epidemiologist, data scientist, wife, and mom of two little girls.

1. I take it you endorse this?
2. Have you had yours yet?
3. You presenting this here has raised my sense of urgency and priority to get mine .... though I am living such a super isolated life these days it seems almost impossible to catch anything. But once I get by some things I have been working on day and night I will be more social.

1. Not necessarily, I just present it as it seems to be one of the least partisan/political well informed and well educated sources I've read. I think people should look at the data, do more research as they wish, and form their own conclusions about what is best for themselves re vaccinations. I do think she has a good point about 150 million not fully boosted - that will make it more[align=][/align] difficult for ever reaching some type of herd immunity, thus the virus will just keep mutating in my opinion.

2. Yes - late September.

3. Best wishes. I hope those walls and closed doors protect you from the sub-microscopic airborne critters.