Gyroscopic Investing

Based on what we have seen in the last two days it's obvious our voting system has got to be improved. What's the answer?

There have been theories that only people who own property, pay rent on property, or being a net tax payer (tax payout greater than government benefits) should be allowed to vote. Do we shorten the number of days that people are allowed to vote in person? Should requirements for mail-in voting be more stringent? Have photo ID, pass a literacy test, require a national voter registration?

The government knows every thing about you and I. All of our personal, medical, and financial data. Yet they can't determine if we have actually voted legitimately, or if our voted was actually counted.

It just shouldn't be that difficult for an advanced country to ensure a legitimate election.

Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

So what's your plan?

doodle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

So what's your plan?

Not live in a major city.

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:20 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

So what's your plan?

Not live in a major city.

Earlier today, taking advantage of one of the few times I'll be able to do so until next March or so....I was sitting outside in the sun while reading a book and listening to music on my iPod.

I was far removed from listening to all this political coverage.

It felt wonderful to be out there reading and listening to music and disconnected.

Vinny

In a kind of visceral-sense, that seems right.

It's past your time. Hang out, drink some vodka and lemonade. You'll be dead soon

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:20 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

So what's your plan?

Not live in a major city.

Any particular states you looking at? I'm in Montana but I'm not sure about this cold yet...although the weather so far has been great. Anyways, my area is being overrun by Californians.

doodle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:31 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:20 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:15 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

So what's your plan?

Not live in a major city.

Any particular states you looking at? I'm in Montana but I'm not sure about this cold yet...although the weather so far has been great. Anyways, my area is being overrun by Californians.

I think it all comes down to your personality, tax situation, cost of living, etc. The US is huge and every part of it is so different.

I would think Montana would be great... but I have never been there. Do you live in a heavily populated area?

Maybe South Dakota? The only downside I know of is that they are basically first strike military targets in the unlikely event of a war.

I think North Appalachia is really nice.... it is generally an area that doesn’t have natural disasters (as long as you are not at the bottom of a valley that floods). It also has all 4 seasons without crazy extremes. It also has enough hills and trees so you wont have to even see your neighbor’s house.

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

It's possible elections would be less distrusted if conducted better. And what"s sad is I feel we have the technology in place to do it right now.

There has certainly been election fraud in state and local elections for many years. Back when "in person" voting was predominate and absentee voting was rare, I just don't remember the accusations of fraud to the extent we are seeing it now.

Lonestar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:22 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

It's possible elections would be less distrusted if conducted better. And what"s sad is I feel we have the technology in place to do it right now.

There has certainly been election fraud in state and local elections for many years. Back when "in person" voting was predominate and absentee voting was rare, I just don't remember the accusations of fraud to the extent we are seeing it now.

I honestly think by and large the accusations are just that....they are really emanating from one source without any evidence. Let's wait and see if there is any meat there or if they are just the wild accusations of a proven narccisitic conman. Our system is antiquated...Florida definitely better as response to 2000 debacle caused changes but I agree time for update.

Lonestar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:22 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

It's possible elections would be less distrusted if conducted better. And what"s sad is I feel we have the technology in place to do it right now.

There has certainly been election fraud in state and local elections for many years. Back when "in person" voting was predominate and absentee voting was rare, I just don't remember the accusations of fraud to the extent we are seeing it now.

I don't know exactly when your "back" refers to but we do have 1948 when Lyndon Johnson indisputably stole the Texas senate election. Or, 1960 when both Kennedy and Nixon stole votes in Illinois.

Vinny

yankees60 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:26 am

Lonestar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:22 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

It's possible elections would be less distrusted if conducted better. And what"s sad is I feel we have the technology in place to do it right now.

There has certainly been election fraud in state and local elections for many years. Back when "in person" voting was predominate and absentee voting was rare, I just don't remember the accusations of fraud to the extent we are seeing it now.

I don't know exactly when your "back" refers to but we do have 1948 when Lyndon Johnson indisputably stole the Texas senate election. Or, 1960 when both Kennedy and Nixon stole votes in Illinois.

Vinny

LBJ and the infamous election results in Duval County in South Texas.....................you know your Texas history!

Lonestar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:47 pm

yankees60 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:26 am

Lonestar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:22 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:02 pm Distrust of the election system is often a sign of a society in its final phase of life. I think the distrust is a symptom of larger problems and not actually the cause.

Right now any election, no matter how perfect, would be distrusted by large amounts of people.

Not to be overly dramatic, but it might not be “fixed” until a new society emerges from the ashes someday.

It's possible elections would be less distrusted if conducted better. And what"s sad is I feel we have the technology in place to do it right now.

There has certainly been election fraud in state and local elections for many years. Back when "in person" voting was predominate and absentee voting was rare, I just don't remember the accusations of fraud to the extent we are seeing it now.

I don't know exactly when your "back" refers to but we do have 1948 when Lyndon Johnson indisputably stole the Texas senate election. Or, 1960 when both Kennedy and Nixon stole votes in Illinois.

Vinny

LBJ and the infamous election results in Duval County in South Texas.....................you know your Texas history!

I have read every one of the wonderful Robert Caro books on Johnson. Caro is now 83 years old (or older) and still working on the last book on Johnson. I don't know who close he is to finishing it but hope he lasts long enough so that we can read it.

Poor Coke Stevenson in that 1948 election. I read the first of the Caro book on Johnson nearly 40 years ago but so much of it stuck with me. Stealing that election was a major memory. If he had instead, lost that election. he was done as a politician. Instead, he outright stole it and, as they say, the rest is history....

Johnson was quite the dichotomous person. Much to admire; much to despise.

Vinny

Actually correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only a small proportion of the country that actually distrusts the mechanics of the election system? Anyway sure, making it tighter using modern information security techniques is something that should be on the todo list. The whole mail-in thing was ridiculous. I fail to understand why they didn't just go with the early voting plan to let people get into the polls while preserving social distancing etc. That worked just fine but could have had more resources poured into it. NYC's early voting was limited to a fraction of the sites, which is why there were long lines. On Election Day there was no line at all at my local polling site.

What *I* distrust is not so much the election mechanics, but the heavy-duty forces that weigh in for their preferred candidate while sidestepping national rules. I speak of course of the MSM. I admit it's hard to know what to do about it. Maybe an election supervisory committee within the Justice Dept & Senate Judiciary Committee that watches for patterns indicating bias and election interference. Once that is determined (e.g. for CNN), they could declare CNN has just become a PAC and apply rules (and penalties) accordingly.

sophie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:19 pm Actually correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only a small proportion of the country that actually distrusts the mechanics of the election system?

If you ask me, the difficulty in accepting an outcome is proportional to the degree to which the person is convinced it could never happen.

The choices are 1) accept that you called it wrong or 2) accept that your view was in the minority or 3) you're right, it must be fraud.

In the days leading up to the election I informally polled a bunch of my ardent Trump supporter friends about what they would think or do if Trump lost. Most told me they hadn't even considered the possibility. In their minds it was a choice between a Trump landslide and a Trump moderate win. One told me it was so obvious, how could I even ask such a nonsensical question. So far, they're all in the fraud allegation category. Why? Because there's no other explanation.
But what if Biden just won more votes, I asked. Don't be a moron, Biden sucks I'm told.

So in answer, I don't think real mistrust in the voting mechanics is the root issue.

glennds wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:01 pm
In the days leading up to the election I informally polled a bunch of my ardent Trump supporter friends about what they would think or do if Trump lost. Most told me they hadn't even considered the possibility. In their minds it was a choice between a Trump landslide and a Trump moderate win. One told me it was so obvious, how could I even ask such a nonsensical question. So far, they're all in the fraud allegation category. Why? Because there's no other explanation.
But what if Biden just won more votes, I asked. Don't be a moron, Biden sucks I'm told.

Pretty much sums up my interactions as well.

I have another thread regarding how to fix media....apparently I'm not doing a good job coming up with any solutions....so far in this thread no real ideas on how to tackle elections other than...society will crash and burn and I'm going to move to the country.

I think therin lies the primary issue between conservatives and progressives. When issues arise progressives seem to want to try to come up with solutions whereas conservatives just seem to proclaim that this is just the way things are and there is nothing much we can do. That's my general sense of things....am I wrong?

Ironically, isn't the United States itself a progressive solution to the issues of the old world?