Gyroscopic Investing

I watched almost the whole thing, starting after the initial responses to the first question.

Under the circumstances I thought the moderator did as good a job as possible trying to keep them on course and cutting them off when they just kept on going.

Vinny

Continuing to watch this three candidate debate for a House of Representatives position for New York State. Once the time limit is reached a loud gong is heard. Quite refreshing to see each candidate respect these time limits by stopping to speak immediately upon hearing it or within one or two seconds tops. What does it say about the character of candidates in other debates when they also cannot observe simples rules like this?

Vinny

I thought Biden did very well and I think it was enough to put the dementia issue to rest once and for all. If my mind is still that sharp 7 years from now I'll be happy.

Unfortunately for him, I thought Trump was also at the top of his game and won handily, although I think the idea that someone "wins" a debate like this misses the point. The only metric that matters is votes on election day. If any minds were changed or made up by the debate I would bet it tended to go in the direction of Trump but we'll have to wait and see.

Also thought the moderator was surprisingly fair. Even asked questions about Hunter which must have surprised a lot of people, including me. Trump doesn't mind hard questions as long as he's not the only one getting them and he even remarked at one point that she was doing a good job. Haven't checked the news yet this morning but I'm worried that the progressives will be trying to cancel her this morning.

Trump solidly won the debate.

- Trump was cooler and more collected than in the first debate.

- The new mic-cutting rule seemed to work in Trump’s favor by saving him from himself.

- Biden came across as a bit less energetic and less confident in this debate compared to the first one. He stuttered and slurred his words noticeably a few times. A minor thing, but I definitely noticed.

- Biden stuck his foot in his mouth by claiming that he never said he’d get rid of fracking, then doubled down by challenging Trump to post a video of him saying it (which Trump promptly did... ouch!).

- Biden tried to dismiss the Hunter laptop scandal as “Russian disinformation”, an old, tired phrase used by the Dems which Trump righty mocked since clearly the evidence against Biden is piling up and is quite damning.

EDIT: I agree with pp4me that the moderator was surprisingly fair.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:22 pm Trump solidly won the debate.

- Trump was cooler and more collected than in the first debate.

- The new mic-cutting rule seemed to work in Trump’s favor by saving him from himself.

- Biden came across as a bit less energetic and less confident in this debate compared to the first one. He stuttered and slurred his words noticeably a few times. A minor thing, but I definitely noticed.

- Biden stuck his foot in his mouth by claiming that he never said he’d get rid of fracking, then doubled down by challenging Trump to post a video of him saying it (which Trump promptly did... ouch!).

- Biden tried to dismiss the Hunter laptop scandal as “Russian disinformation”, an old, tired phrase used by the Dems which Trump righty mocked since clearly the evidence against Biden is piling up and is quite damning.

EDIT: I agree with pp4me that the moderator was surprisingly fair.

Their version of the Trumpists always shrugging off charges (oftentimes legitimate) with the response of "Fake News!".

Vinny

I've seen the debate fact checked from multiple sources...more than half of what was said was bullshit.

doodle wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:24 pm I've seen the debate fact checked from multiple sources...more than half of what was said was bullshit.

George Carlin - Bullshit Is Everywhere

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:13 pm

yankees60 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:29 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:22 pm Trump solidly won the debate.

- Trump was cooler and more collected than in the first debate.

- The new mic-cutting rule seemed to work in Trump’s favor by saving him from himself.

- Biden came across as a bit less energetic and less confident in this debate compared to the first one. He stuttered and slurred his words noticeably a few times. A minor thing, but I definitely noticed.

- Biden stuck his foot in his mouth by claiming that he never said he’d get rid of fracking, then doubled down by challenging Trump to post a video of him saying it (which Trump promptly did... ouch!).

- Biden tried to dismiss the Hunter laptop scandal as “Russian disinformation”, an old, tired phrase used by the Dems which Trump righty mocked since clearly the evidence against Biden is piling up and is quite damning.

EDIT: I agree with pp4me that the moderator was surprisingly fair.

Their version of the Trumpists always shrugging off charges (oftentimes legitimate) with the response of "Fake News!".

Vinny

Which charges against Trump were legitimate?
The Russia hoax?
The "fine people" hoax?
The impeachment hoax?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Has this been ANY charge you believe was true and which the response was was "Fake News"?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Vinny

Vinny, are you seriously taking the position that fake news in the mainstream media is rare?

The legacy media has become a mixture of tabloid news and propaganda for the Democratic Party.

In our modern Internet Age, news on social media and alt-tech is chaotic, and often one has to sift through a lot of chaff to find the wheat. But at least the wheat can usually be found.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:28 pm Vinny, are you seriously taking the position that fake news in the mainstream media is rare?

The legacy media has become a mixture of tabloid news and propaganda for the Democratic Party.

In our modern Internet Age, news on social media and alt-tech is chaotic, and often one has to sift through a lot of chaff to find the wheat. But at least the wheat can usually be found.

No. I'm taking the position that the response of "fake news" if oftentimes incorrect.

Vinny

My impression is that the debate did nothing other than reinforce the predisposition each viewer had going in.

Does anyone think it was pivotal enough to change anyone's mind?

Emblematic of politics today in general, I surmise we each heard exactly what we wanted to hear. I also get the impression the number of people truly on the fence is a very small slice.

glennds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:31 pm My impression is that the debate did nothing other than reinforce the predisposition each viewer had going in.

Does anyone think it was pivotal enough to change anyone's mind?

Emblematic of politics today in general, I surmise we each heard exactly what we wanted to hear. I also get the impression the number of people truly on the fence is a very small slice.

That could very well be right, and I could also see the increasing use of early voting minimizing the impact of debates. How many votes have already been cast, and these before the debate last night? I have seen estimates ranging from 25% to as much as 33% having already voted.

Jim Burnham wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:58 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:31 pm My impression is that the debate did nothing other than reinforce the predisposition each viewer had going in.

Does anyone think it was pivotal enough to change anyone's mind?

Emblematic of politics today in general, I surmise we each heard exactly what we wanted to hear. I also get the impression the number of people truly on the fence is a very small slice.

That could very well be right, and I could also see the increasing use of early voting minimizing the impact of debates. How many votes have already been cast, and these before the debate last night? I have seen estimates ranging from 25% to as much as 33% having already voted.

I did hear today that this debate took place 12 days before the election while four years ago last one was 31 days before the election. And, there has been a dramatic increase in votes cast prior to the last debate this time around than last time around.

Vinny

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:01 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:31 pm My impression is that the debate did nothing other than reinforce the predisposition each viewer had going in.

Does anyone think it was pivotal enough to change anyone's mind?

Emblematic of politics today in general, I surmise we each heard exactly what we wanted to hear. I also get the impression the number of people truly on the fence is a very small slice.

I'm sure Vinny will consider this valid, since it happened on CSPAN!
https://100percentfedup.com/undecided-v ... te-answer/

It IS valid! I heard it today!

Vinny

Do undecided voters tend to vote earlier or later? I’m guessing later, but I don’t really know.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:32 am Do undecided voters tend to vote earlier or later? I’m guessing later, but I don’t really know.

I think it should be obvious that it must be later.
Why would someone who doesn't know whom to vote for, bother to vote early?

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:45 am

Tortoise wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:32 am Do undecided voters tend to vote earlier or later? I’m guessing later, but I don’t really know.

I think it should be obvious that it must be later.
Why would someone who doesn't know whom to vote for, bother to vote early?

Thanks, that’s what I thought.

So the suggestion in this thread that early voting may be minimizing the impact of the debates doesn’t seem likely. The debates are targeted especially at undecided voters, most of whom probably vote later rather than sooner.

A corollary is that anything that happens between now and November 3rd could potentially sway a lot of undecided voters and therefore the election result in the battleground states.

I would say that both candidates lost. They are both terrible debaters.

Neither of them used facts or solid evidence to back up their positions. For example, Biden kept stating that lockdowns were the sole correct national response to increasing cases in any given region. He also implied that Trump should have locked down the country back in January or February and kept it locked down since them. He cited no evidence to support this assertion, and effectively dismissed the costs of lockdowns (including to human health) as a minor inconvenience. Trump could have mopped the floor with him at this point by citing the Sweden example, the WHO statement against lockdowns, the well documented economic, social, and health impacts of lockdowns etc. Instead he meandered off into talking about how young people don't get that sick and how his own case wasn't so bad.

I kinda lost interest in the debate after that. The vote won't come down to which of these idiots belongs in office. It goes in Trump's favor because he gets the right answer for the wrong reasons consistently. Biden on the other hand will always get the wrong answer. What's it's really about though is a choice between two ideologies: one emphasizing personal freedom/responsibility and let capitalism do its thing, the other emphasizing a heavy hand on the state control button. I know which one I prefer, so that's that.