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General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:36 am
by Libertarian666
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 am
by Xan
Could you describe what this achieves?
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:59 am
by Libertarian666
Sure. It's a way of establishing libertarianism without having to change the government.
Let's say there's a registry of who has signed it and whether anyone has complained that they aren't following it.
Assuming you have a choice of dealing with someone who has signed it and has no outstanding complaints, or anyone else you don't know personally, which would you choose?
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:06 am
by Xan
I'm not following how this is libertarian. Is the idea that you're avoiding a lawsuit and an actual court?
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:23 am
by Libertarian666
Xan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:06 am
I'm not following how this is libertarian. Is the idea that you're avoiding a lawsuit and an actual court?
It removes the option of going to the government from interactions between people who sign it.
If you and anyone else have signed it, you have agreed to have any disputes arbitrated rather than suing one another.
The only people who will sign it and remain in good standing are those who are willing to live up to their agreements.
Thus, if someone has signed it and has lived up to it, you have a very good reason to believe that they are trustworthy, which of course is not necessarily true of the general population.
This would give a tremendous advantage in all interpersonal relations to people who have signed it.
And if enough people sign it, the litigiousness of society will decrease dramatically and those who are willing to cheat others will find themselves out in the cold. That of course includes most politicians, who don't even try to keep their promises.
It's analogous to the Golden Rule in a number of ways, and of course is compatible with that rule because it is symmetrical.
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:17 pm
by glennds
Xan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 am
Could you describe what this achieves?
It's just a private dispute resolution agreement. You've probably signed one (or provisions to the same effect) every time you've checked into a hotel, registered at a hospital, signed a credit card agreement, car loan, etc.
I believe when Libertarian666 is referring to "the government" here, we're talking about the small claims, County, State or Federal court systems. By signing it, you're agreeing to arbitration rules and procedures. The most important thing to know is that the arbitrator is the proxy for a judge or jury, and that person is not bound to follow any law or legal precedent. They can decide the matter as they like with little to no accountability, and since arbitration is usually binding, there is no right of appeal either. There are pros and cons but neither arbitration nor it's cousin mediation, are new. Arbitration agreements and clauses have been around for decades.
However attaching any form of alternative dispute resolution to anti-government sentiment is something I have only heard lately, so I would say that spin is a product of present political fashion trend.
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:11 pm
by Libertarian666
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:17 pm
Xan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 am
Could you describe what this achieves?
It's just a private dispute resolution agreement. You've probably signed one (or provisions to the same effect) every time you've checked into a hotel, registered at a hospital, signed a credit card agreement, car loan, etc.
I believe when Libertarian666 is referring to "the government" here, we're talking about the small claims, County, State or Federal court systems. By signing it, you're agreeing to arbitration rules and procedures. The most important thing to know is that the arbitrator is the proxy for a judge or jury, and that person is not bound to follow any law or legal precedent. They can decide the matter as they like with little to no accountability, and since arbitration is usually binding, there is no right of appeal either. There are pros and cons but neither arbitration nor it's cousin mediation, are new. Arbitration agreements and clauses have been around for decades.
However attaching any form of alternative dispute resolution to anti-government sentiment is something I have only heard lately, so I would say that spin is a product of present political fashion trend.
"Alongside Night" was written in the 1970's. That's where I first read about the General Submission to Arbitration.
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:22 pm
by glennds
Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:11 pm
"Alongside Night" was written in the 1970's. That's where I first read about the General Submission to Arbitration.
Well that book may be from the 1970's but binding and enforceable arbitration in the United States became popular during the Industrial Revolution, and was put into law in 1925 under the Federal Arbitration Act.
On good thing about Arbitration is it frustrates opportunistic lawsuits from ambulance chaser PI attorneys. Although they will often take the claim to court to see if they can knock out the enforceablility of the arbitration agreement on the basis that their client was duped into signing it. In your scenario if both parties are explicitly agreeing to arbitration in a way that is not buried in larger agreement, it is hard for one to later claim they didn't understand what they were signing.
Re: General submission to arbitration
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:11 pm
by Libertarian666
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:22 pm
Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:11 pm
"Alongside Night" was written in the 1970's. That's where I first read about the General Submission to Arbitration.
Well that book may be from the 1970's but binding and enforceable arbitration in the United States became popular during the Industrial Revolution, and was put into law in 1925 under the Federal Arbitration Act.
On good thing about Arbitration is it frustrates opportunistic lawsuits from ambulance chaser PI attorneys. Although they will often take the claim to court to see if they can knock out the enforceablility of the arbitration agreement on the basis that their client was duped into signing it. In your scenario if both parties are explicitly agreeing to arbitration in a way that is not buried in larger agreement, it is hard for one to later claim they didn't understand what they were signing.
Agreed.