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HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:49 pm
by Libertarian666
"According to a protocol-based treatment algorithm, among hospitalized patients, use of hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with a significant reduction in-hospital mortality compared to not receiving hydroxychloroquine."
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S120 ... 8/fulltext
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:07 pm
by Cortopassi
Man, you read through that breakdown of of the huge percentages of comorbidities, diabetes, BMI, etc, what the hell are Americans eating?!
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:20 pm
by pp4me
HCQ = $40 for 50 pills. Remdisivir treatment around $3120 per patient.
Tells you everything you need to know.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm
by WiseOne
No it doesn't.
Thanks for posting this tech, but it's an observational study just like the one I posted from New England Journal of Medicine that did not find a difference between treatments. I've said already that I completely support prospective, randomized clinical trials and that's what's needed to answer your question. If this study encourages those, that's a good thing. However - there are a lot of hidden sources of bias in observational studies that could alter results, e.g. physicians could be giving HCQ preferentially to patients who look like they have a good chance of surviving already.
The only thing we know right now is that HCQ might be an effective treatment - but if it is, it won't be a miracle cure, it'll just somewhat improve a person's chances. I'm reasonably certain, though, that any adverse effects of HCQ are either balanced out by the positive effects, or are too small to show up in these studies. Which is also good news.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:46 pm
by Libertarian666
Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:07 pm
Man, you read through that breakdown of of the huge percentages of comorbidities, diabetes, BMI, etc, what the hell are Americans eating?!
Crap, basically.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:48 pm
by pp4me
My son's experience over the weekend does tend to lend credence to WiseOne's observation.
From the way he described it, he was experiencing the "cytokine storm" and should have gone to the hospital but didn't, either because he was an idiot, or didn't have insurance, or possibly both (I can confirm the former). He got better overnight all on his own so his anecdotal experience does match the overnight miracle cures from HCQ that I have heard of.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:50 pm
by Libertarian666
WiseOne wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm
No it doesn't.
Thanks for posting this tech, but it's an observational study just like the one I posted from New England Journal of Medicine that did not find a difference between treatments. I've said already that I completely support prospective, randomized clinical trials and that's what's needed to answer your question. If this study encourages those, that's a good thing. However - there are a lot of hidden sources of bias in observational studies that could alter results, e.g. physicians could be giving HCQ preferentially to patients who look like they have a good chance of surviving already.
The only thing we know right now is that HCQ might be an effective treatment - but if it is, it won't be a miracle cure, it'll just somewhat improve a person's chances. I'm reasonably certain, though, that any adverse effects of HCQ are either balanced out by the positive effects, or are too small to show up in these studies. Which is also good news.
Yes, I understand that randomized controlled studies are the gold standard, but my understanding is that the ones that were in progress were cancelled because of the fake study that purported to show that it was harmful.
So "protocol-based" doesn't mean that they were giving it based on a protocol? I would think that if you go by a protocol, then you would give it to patients based on the protocol, not based on whether you thought they would do well.
And why would anyone do that anyway? If anything, I would expect it to be given to patients that they thought were in the most trouble, as a hail-Mary pass.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:53 pm
by yankees60
Cortopassi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:07 pm
Man, you read through that breakdown of of the huge percentages of comorbidities, diabetes, BMI, etc, what the hell are Americans eating?!
SAD = Standard American Diet
Vinny
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 am
by Maddy
When scientific rigor has gone out the window and all we have left are variations on the theme of fraud, I'd suggest that the bar is disproportionately high when it comes to hydroxychloroquine.
Note that the CoVid-19 vaccine has been not only declared "safe" but has been mandated by at least two universities (and national health "authorities" are jawboning about mandating it for the entire population) before it even exists.
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:18 am
by yankees60
Maddy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 am
When scientific rigor has gone out the window and all we have left are variations on the theme of fraud, I'd suggest that the bar is disproportionately high when it comes to hydroxychloroquine.
Note that the CoVid-19 vaccine has been not only declared "safe" but has been mandated by at least two universities (and national health "authorities" are jawboning about mandating it for the entire population)
before it even exists.
A few minutes ago I heard that there is an article in the Wall Street Journal that states when a vaccine arrives, half the population will refuse to take it.
Vinny
Re: HCQ does work
Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:47 am
by pp4me
yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:18 am
Maddy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 am
When scientific rigor has gone out the window and all we have left are variations on the theme of fraud, I'd suggest that the bar is disproportionately high when it comes to hydroxychloroquine.
Note that the CoVid-19 vaccine has been not only declared "safe" but has been mandated by at least two universities (and national health "authorities" are jawboning about mandating it for the entire population)
before it even exists.
A few minutes ago I heard that there is an article in the Wall Street Journal that states when a vaccine arrives, half the population will refuse to take it.
Vinny
There is actually a good historical precedent for not wanting to be first in line for a new vaccine. A bad batch of the first polio vaccine gave people the virus. That would never happen with the CDC and FDA in place today however (just kidding - see the initial first test for Covid, complements of Dr. Fauci).