More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

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Maddy
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More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Maddy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:25 am

For a long while, I've been intrigued by the prospect that the counterculture movement of the sixties was both spawned and propelled by U.S. intelligence in close collaboration with the Hollywood elite and the music industry--ostensibly for the purpose of undermining traditional American culture and, ultimately, for the purpose of gaining total control over the political apparatus in Washington. In a previous post, I recommended a book by Dave McGowan (available in full free on-line) which was the product of that author's lifetime of research into the origins of the "hippie" movement and the sequence of events through which its epicenter took shape, seemingly overnight, in a secluded suburb of Los Angeles known as Laurel Canyon. https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/ ... on-part-i/

In that book, the author provides a captivating account of how a staggeringly large number of would-be musicians were simultaneously drawn to that neighborhood as if by some invisible pied piper (many of whom had little or no prior musical background), only to be vaulted to the height of fame within a very short period of time. And how the sprawling, tunneled compounds that were occupied by this extensive community of squatters became a protected haven in which hallucinogenic drugs, Satanic ritualism, and pedophilia ran rampant. And how the neighborhood just happened to also be the location of a sprawling CIA installation replete with state-of-the-art film studio.

Based upon first-person accounts of people who were there, the book reveals a very creepy set of interconnections between a number of notable players: the CIA, with its early mind control experiments (e.g., "MK Ultra"), the Hollywood Elite, the music industry (including some very familiar names such as Jim Morrison--whose father just happened to be THE Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tonkin fame), Timothy Leary, and--of all people--Charles Manson and his stoned-out troupe of underage runaway girls. The author speculates that the counterculture phenomenon which swept the country in the early 60s was in fact a well-orchestrated "psy op" intended to galvanize support for the Vietnam war through "controlled opposition"--specifically by linking resistance to the war to a counterculture movement predicted to be especially disdainful to middle-class Americans of that era.

The book struck me--and continues to strike me--as providing a prescient glimpse into the origins of the modern Deep State and the methods by which it has succeeded in gaining control of the economic and political apparatus in the United States. Their methods, it seems, have been fairly consistent throughout the years: the spread of disinformation, the use of "mind control" technologies (most notably drugs) on susceptible populations, and the use of "control files" capable of blackmailing literally anyone. And their preferred currency, and tool of extortion, has always been children.

In today's news, I noticed that a new book has come out which focuses on the connections between Charles Manson, the Manson family, and the CIA. https://www.activistpost.com/2019/11/re ... ywood.html It's likely to be an eye-opener, especially if read in conjunction with Dave McGowan's earlier work.

I'd love to get a discussion going on this subject, as I think it is the key to literally everything that is going on.
Last edited by Maddy on Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:49 am

Maddy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:25 am
For a long while, I've been intrigued by the prospect that the counterculture movement of the sixties was both spawned and propelled by U.S. intelligence in close collaboration with the Hollywood elite and the music industry--ostensibly for the purpose of undermining traditional American culture and, ultimately, for the purpose of gaining total control over the political apparatus in Washington. In a previous post, I recommended a book by Dave McGowan (available in full free on-line) which was the product of that author's lifetime of research into the origins of the "hippie" movement and the sequence of events through which its epicenter took shape, seemingly overnight, in a secluded suburb of Los Angeles known as Laurel Canyon. https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/ ... part-xxii/

In that book, the author provides a captivating account of how a staggeringly large number of would-be musicians were simultaneously drawn to that neighborhood as if by some invisible pied piper (many of whom had little or no prior musical background), only to be vaulted to the height of fame within a very short period of time. And how the sprawling, tunneled compounds that were occupied by this extensive community of squatters became a protected haven in which hallucinogenic drugs, Satanic ritualism, and pedophilia ran rampant. And how the neighborhood just happened to also be the location of a sprawling CIA installation replete with state-of-the-art film studio.

Based upon first-person accounts of people who were there, the book reveals a very creepy set of interconnections between a number of notable players: the CIA, with its early mind control experiments (e.g., "MK Ultra"), the Hollywood Elite, the music industry (including some very familiar names such as Jim Morrison--whose father just happened to be THE Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tonkin fame), Timothy Leary, and--of all people--Charles Manson and his stoned-out troupe of underage runaway girls. The author speculates that the counterculture phenomenon which swept the country in the early 60s was in fact a well-orchestrated "psy op" intended to galvanize support for the Vietnam war through "controlled opposition"--specifically by linking resistance to the war to a counterculture movement predicted to be especially disdainful to middle-class Americans of that era.

The book struck me--and continues to strike me--as providing a prescient glimpse into the origins of the modern Deep State and the methods by which it has succeeded in gaining control of the economic and political apparatus in the United States. Their methods, it seems, have been fairly consistent throughout the years: the spread of disinformation, the use of "mind control" technologies (most notably drugs) on susceptible populations, and the use of "control files" capable of blackmailing literally anyone. Child sex trafficking is, and always has been, their currency of choice.

In today's news, I noticed that a new book has come out which focuses on the connections between Charles Manson, the Manson family, and the CIA. https://www.activistpost.com/2019/11/re ... ywood.html It's likely to be an eye-opener, especially if read in conjunction with Dave McGowan's earlier work.

I'd love to get a discussion going on this subject, as I think it is the key to literally everything that is going on.
My first response is to reject any conspiracy theories since they generally seem to always strain incredulity.

However, I would like to read each of these books since I grew up during those times and was well aware of what was going on around me and in the country. And, then make judgements as to how credible the assertions in each are.

Vinny
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:56 am

I read through that series of articles a while ago (they're super long, it took forever!). Some of the most interesting reading on the internet, for sure.
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by l82start » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:27 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:56 am
I read through that series of articles a while ago (they're super long, it took forever!). Some of the most interesting reading on the internet, for sure.
"ditto"
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:40 am

I heard a recent rebroadcast of an interview with McGowan in which he said that in the past, he thought the phrase 'ignorance is bliss' was generally a putdown, and that after all the years of studying the things he has studied, he was beginning to rethink that assumption.

He wondered out loud whether or not there is value in finding out about a lot of scary behind the scenes stuff that you can't do anything about.

Not to put a damper on discussion, just more of a heads up.
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Maddy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:48 am

After reading a couple of chapters of the McGowan e-book, I did some of my own fact-checking on the internet, as the number of uncanny associations he was making seemed so implausible. Interestingly, many of the facts he recites can indeed be verified from multiple independent sources, and they're not particularly hard to find.

Initially I was put off by the fact that the subtitle of his e-book includes the phrase "mostly true." McGowan, it seems, was once asked in an interview what he meant by that, and he replied that it was a sort of disclaimer referring to the fact that a lot of his research involved face-to-face interviews of people with first-hand knowledge that could not be independently verified.
He wondered out loud whether or not there is value in finding out about a lot of scary behind the scenes stuff that you can't do anything about.
It certainly changes your world view in a way that doesn't allow you to go back. But as of this year, even a head-in-the-sand-type person would be hard pressed to avoid seeing that something seriously nefarious has been going on.
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:48 am
It certainly changes your world view in a way that doesn't allow you to go back. But as of this year, even a head-in-the-sand-type person would be hard pressed to avoid seeing that something seriously nefarious has been going on.
True enough.

You might like this interview with Tom O'Neill on a pretty obscure podcast for background. In this one he is interviewed by one of his older friends, a comedian, and they talk about all the years he chased this story while living in poverty.

It is interesting to see all this from the point of the view of the host, Greg Fitzsimmons, who comes from the mainstream entertainment world, not the geopolitical/conspiracy one.

https://gregfitz.libsyn.com/tom-oneill-episode-766

My basic view on Manson, and this is what I remember from reading McGowan and listening to interviews with him, is that everyone is trying to downplay their relationship with Manson, when in fact he was much more intertwined with the celebrities of the the sixties than is acknowledged.

I think a big problem with actually figuring this kind of stuff out is that the people behind it would be trying to hide it, so there is no real way to do normal research. You have to look at their behavior and make a bunch of logical leaps, or base your views on 'connections,' often ill defined, between people.

It seems to me that it if very possible that the government gets first crack at all psychological research, which includes the military and the alphabet agencies, and they go on to figure out how to weaponize the stuff through their own experiments whether on individuals, groups, or all of society.

So, theoretically, it is very conceivable that, as McGowan states, the counter culture was socially engineered by the state, treating a generation as lab rats, both with stated goals and just to see what would happen.

From the point of view of controlling the masses, getting them stoned out of their minds and listening to tribal incoherent music is a pretty good strategy.

It is possible. All sorts of testing going on.

So it is equally possible that Manson and his group were another experiment on group control, and also as a way to shut down legitimate dissent for the Vietnam war by lumping it all in with the now dangerous and violent drug taking hippies.

It's just so hard to get at the truth when you are dealing with agencies that have decades of deception under their belts. It is hard to have a definite opinion about any of this.

Although, from the point of view of elite controllers, having people like me who don't know what to think are just as valuable as burned out hippies because neither of us act, we just sit there, our minds blown.

Have you come across the writing and videos of Jay Dyer?

He takes a very academic view of all this and really reads everything he can, and has a good series on globalists and their actual writing over the years.

Here is his his video about Manson and the CIA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVWNsRax7Og

I don't remember if I have listened to this one, so I will listen to it and there might be some insights into your topic there.
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Maddy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:55 pm

Thanks for the links, Sweetbthescrivner. They'll make good listening tonight!

One of the things I've been curious about is Manson's preoccupation with the notion of "Helter Skelter," a sort of civil war between the races that would plunge society into a state of chaos. Was this simply the self-aggrandizing fantasy of a white surpremacist-type nutjob, or was Manson privy to something that was intentionally being set in motion by the powerful forces with which he was apparently rubbing elbows? And to what extent might the current social and political upheaval in which the Right has been pitted against the Left (and which we know to be funded by some of the most notorious, sociopathic Elites) represent just the latest iteration of the same destructive plan?
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:37 pm

Maddy wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:25 am
For a long while, I've been intrigued by the prospect that the counterculture movement of the sixties was both spawned and propelled by U.S. intelligence in close collaboration with the Hollywood elite and the music industry--ostensibly for the purpose of undermining traditional American culture and, ultimately, for the purpose of gaining total control over the political apparatus in Washington. In a previous post, I recommended a book by Dave McGowan (available in full free on-line) which was the product of that author's lifetime of research into the origins of the "hippie" movement and the sequence of events through which its epicenter took shape, seemingly overnight, in a secluded suburb of Los Angeles known as Laurel Canyon. https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/ ... on-part-i/

In that book, the author provides a captivating account of how a staggeringly large number of would-be musicians were simultaneously drawn to that neighborhood as if by some invisible pied piper (many of whom had little or no prior musical background), only to be vaulted to the height of fame within a very short period of time. And how the sprawling, tunneled compounds that were occupied by this extensive community of squatters became a protected haven in which hallucinogenic drugs, Satanic ritualism, and pedophilia ran rampant. And how the neighborhood just happened to also be the location of a sprawling CIA installation replete with state-of-the-art film studio.

Based upon first-person accounts of people who were there, the book reveals a very creepy set of interconnections between a number of notable players: the CIA, with its early mind control experiments (e.g., "MK Ultra"), the Hollywood Elite, the music industry (including some very familiar names such as Jim Morrison--whose father just happened to be THE Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tonkin fame), Timothy Leary, and--of all people--Charles Manson and his stoned-out troupe of underage runaway girls. The author speculates that the counterculture phenomenon which swept the country in the early 60s was in fact a well-orchestrated "psy op" intended to galvanize support for the Vietnam war through "controlled opposition"--specifically by linking resistance to the war to a counterculture movement predicted to be especially disdainful to middle-class Americans of that era.

The book struck me--and continues to strike me--as providing a prescient glimpse into the origins of the modern Deep State and the methods by which it has succeeded in gaining control of the economic and political apparatus in the United States. Their methods, it seems, have been fairly consistent throughout the years: the spread of disinformation, the use of "mind control" technologies (most notably drugs) on susceptible populations, and the use of "control files" capable of blackmailing literally anyone. And their preferred currency, and tool of extortion, has always been children.

In today's news, I noticed that a new book has come out which focuses on the connections between Charles Manson, the Manson family, and the CIA. https://www.activistpost.com/2019/11/re ... ywood.html It's likely to be an eye-opener, especially if read in conjunction with Dave McGowan's earlier work.

I'd love to get a discussion going on this subject, as I think it is the key to literally everything that is going on.
I have now read the article above regarding the new book. I have issue with several items in the book. Frist Vincent Bugliosi:

a. "Much of what was believed to be true about the Manson murders and the cult that carried them out comes from a narrative that was spun by prosecutor Vince Bugliosi, both during the trial and in his book Helter Skelter—the best selling true crime novel of all time"
b. "The one thing that he is certain of, however, is that the narrative created by prosecutor Vince Bugliosi is a lie."
c. "Bugliosi was aware of O’Neill’s research for a number of years, and went through great lengths to intimidate him over his reporting of the case. It makes sense that his research was not published until a few years after Bugliosi’s death. After the Manson trials, Bugliosi went on to make millions of dollars through the sales of his book, but his career was tarnished by numerous scandals, including witness intimidation.
In one case, while he was up for election for District Attorney, he beat his pregnant mistress until she had a miscarriage because she refused to get an abortion. In another, he stalked his former milkman and threatened his family after becoming convinced that his wife had fathered a child with the deliveryman, despite a paternity test proving otherwise."

I read Helter Skelter in 1976. Other books I read of his was (in 2001) - No Island of Sanity, (in 2013) Reclaiming History, (in 2014) The Prosecution of George Bush, and other True Crime books of his. His writing comes across as meticulously well researched. The Reclaiming History book took forever to read given that it was 1,612 page. The book won the 2008 Edgar Award for Best Fact Crime.

As far the allegations of his intimidation....what is the author's source for this? This is the first I have ever heard of this (that alone, of course, does not make it false) but why is there zero mention of it in his Wikipedia entry? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi It's been my experience that Wikipedia entries generally have details and facts that one will generally not find anywhere else.

Now getting to Manson.

In 2013 I read this excellent book: https://www.amazon.com/Manson-Life-Time ... l_huc_item Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson This was overall an excellent book. Incredibly well researched and detailed. No mention of what is in this article.

My earlier initial response was that in general I don't believe in conspiracies. And, to choose Charles Manson to be a main player in your great adventure makes about the same sense as choosing Lee Harvey Oswald to kill a president. In other words, in each case you'd never choose either one of them.

Vinny
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Maddy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:52 pm

No offense intended, but if the events of the last year have gone to prove anything, they've proven that the rich and powerful DO conspire. And that it's pretty much their modus operandus.

As for picking unlikely people to do your dirty work, who would have guessed that a pajama boy would be the CIA's star (anonymous) witness in an attempted coup against a sitting president?
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Re: More Fascinating Connections (Manson and the CIA)

Post by Maddy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:04 pm

In thinking about this some more:

To what extent might a CIA-inspired plot to foment a race war have shaped J. Edgar Hoover's view of certain black civil rights leaders as among the most dangerous subversives alive? How might it explain, a half-century later, the need to portray Hoover as a flaming faggot/transvestite irrationally bent upon destroying his political enemies? I'm merely speculating here, but there are some major disconnects that this hypothesis would tend to explain, including the fact that many FBI agents who served under Hoover were proud, principled men of indisputably high character who thought very highly of their boss. And the fact that many of them, in later years, became seriously depressed and drank themselves into oblivion.
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