Gyroscopic Investing

jalanlong wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder."

This is where the original topic comes into play.

I don't know if it simply is social media amplifying polarization, but I would have thought Carter, or Reagan, Or HW, or Clinton or George W or even Obama could have commanded a more unified response, NOT that it would have been the right response in the end, though.

I could be wrong here.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:19 pm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 pm

jalanlong wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm However, I know If he came out and said that then the media and most large businesses would virtue signal respond and "mask harder."

This is where the original topic comes into play.

I don't know if it simply is social media amplifying polarization, but I would have thought Carter, or Reagan, Or HW, or Clinton or George W or even Obama could have commanded a more unified response, NOT that it would have been the right response in the end, though.

I could be wrong here.

The MSM twists his words at every turn, unlike with any former president. It matters not what he says. How can anyone believe him if the media is constantly lying, twisting and subverting him?

I am very interested if this is a Trump thing or a thing with any Republican president in the future. Up until Trump, the media tried to at least maintain a semblance of being unbiased. If the next President is a more traditional Republican (say a McCain/Romney type) does the MSM go back to showing at least a little respect for them or is this a sea change and any Republican going forward is going to get the Trump treatment?

The media response has more to do with the fact that Trump is an outsider not from the established political class than whether he’s a Republican or Democrat.

The UniParty establishment doesn’t care if you’re R or D as long as you’re willing to play their game. Trump’s not playing their game (any more than he’s forced to) so he’s a threat that needs to be neutralized.

People that continue to see all of this as a R vs D thing are really missing the big picture.

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
People that continue to see all of this as a R vs D thing are really missing the big picture.

Doesn't that play into the whole global elite conspiracy theory? Why then, does he campaign actively, and hard, for so many republicans? Why would he care, if it is a uinparty?

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:00 pm

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
People that continue to see all of this as a R vs D thing are really missing the big picture.

Doesn't that play into the whole global elite conspiracy theory? Why then, does he campaign actively, and hard, for so many republicans? Why would he care, if it is a uinparty?

Because RINOs have to pretend to be on his side. They can't vote for Nancy Pelosi for Speaker or Chuck Schumer for Senate majority leader.
Of course that isn't true for those with a D behind their names.

I sort of asked this early on in this thread I think.

For those who dare to get in Trump's head, why did he give interviews to Woodward? Esp. after Woodward wrote "Fear" two years ago and Trump made comments like these about the book:

After several news outlets published excerpts of the book in early September, Trump claimed that Fear was "just another bad book", and that Woodward "had a lot of credibility problems ...

If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

True.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

I disagree. Information attracts the bitter ankle biters.
And the tools of lawfare aren't exactly the honest scales of justice we would all like.

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

I don't get the whole tax return thing. Does anyone think that Donald does the taxes for the Trump Organization?

I use a pretty high priced accounting firm for my taxes every year. And if they don't use every legal loophole they can find, they won't be with me much longer.

The IRS gets a copy. They go over it with a fine toothed comb. How is that not full disclosure? If anything is amiss, it gets corrected with a letter and a fine. Other than that, it is all legal and aboveboard.

Keeping your 1040 (semi) private is not the same as hiding your heroin dependency or Thai rent boi.

What else does anyone expect?

High priced law firms and the IRS give DJT's taxes the full treatment. If there were anything juicy there, someone in one of those organizations would have leaked it.

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:32 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

I don't get the whole tax return thing. Does anyone think that Donald does the taxes for the Trump Organization?

I use a pretty high priced accounting firm for my taxes every year. And if they don't use every legal loophole they can find, they won't be with me much longer.

The IRS gets a copy. They go over it with a fine toothed comb. How is that not full disclosure? If anything is amiss, it gets corrected with a letter and a fine. Other than that, it is all legal and aboveboard.

Keeping your 1040 (semi) private is not the same as hiding your heroin dependency or Thai rent boi.

What else does anyone expect?

High priced law firms and the IRS give DJT's taxes the full treatment. If there were anything juicy there, someone in one of those organizations would have leaked it.

There HAS to be extreme and harsh internal penalties for leaking from the IRS because I cannot remember it ever happening.

Vinny

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 pm
There HAS to be extreme and harsh internal penalties for leaking from the IRS because I cannot remember it ever happening.

Vinny

Vinny, you're a gentle soul and I like you.

But you are also smart. And an accountant. If you felt it was vitally important to the security of the country to leak some numbers to the press, do you think you could do it without getting caught?

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?

Does it make a difference that I'm not running for public office, not seeking a position where my decisions would have any impact on you or anyone else participating in this discussion forum?

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:47 pm

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 pm
There HAS to be extreme and harsh internal penalties for leaking from the IRS because I cannot remember it ever happening.

Vinny

Vinny, you're a gentle soul and I like you.

But you are also smart. And an accountant. If you felt it was vitally important to the security of the country to leak some numbers to the press, do you think you could do it without getting caught?

Yes, I could do if not working for the IRS. But if I were working for the IRS and there was a list of penalties such as "and, every one of your tax returns that have ever been filed and every one you subsequently file will be audited" I might not take the chance.

But there is another factor here - privacy and trust. I did work for an accounting firm for 9 years. I had access to every single tax return the firm filed. I would have loved to have seen my friend's tax return, which was prepared by that firm. However, since I was not involved in preparing his tax tax, I never looked at it because doing so would have been a gross breach of privacy and trust. I don't want that happening to me therefore by the golden rule I'm not doing to do it to others.

Another case, was when I was remotely backing up all my financial advisor's client files on to my hard drive. This was well over 20 years ago. Again, I knew some of his clients and would have loved to have looked at their portfolios. But for the same reasons described above, while I still have all those files, I have never opened one of them.

But back to the IRS. I'm almost certain that they have fairly antiquated computer systems. But, even so, I have to believe that they have some record of each person who has ever touched a certain tax return. Therefore, IF a tax return was ever leaked they are going to focus on each person who ever touched that return and put on heavy pressure. And, I mean HEAVY pressure.

When I was 18 years old I had a summer job with the US post office, delivering mail. One day I left my mailbox key in the mailbox. I came back and told my boss what I had done. Luckily a subsequent mailman found it. My boss told me that that key opened every mailbox in Cranston and Providence (Rhode Island) -- a population of about 250,000 -- and if that key had not been found, they'd have to change the keys on all the boxes in boxes for each city overnight. He told me that the postal inspectors would be on me for the rest of my life. As I said, luckily another mailman found it. How I left it there is a story for another time.

We like to think the government is inept. In certain cases you do NOT want to cross the government.

I just don't know of a tax return ever being leaked from the IRS. Do you?

Finally, your exact question was: "to leak some numbers to the press".

What credibility would you give to some numbers appearing in an article that stated it came from an unnamed source within the IRS? I'd suspect none.

Wouldn't we at least need to see the first page of the 1040 both signed by the taxpayer and the tax preparer?

And, even then, how do we know that it genuine and the real thing and not something someone created in a tax program?

Vinny

Harry Reid lied about Mitt Romney’s taxes in the 2012 election. All it takes is an accusation and the media takes it from there. Credibility not required. The damage can’t be undone in a timely manner if at all.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harr ... neys-taxes

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:42 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 pm

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 pm

stuper1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:34 pm If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide from anybody.

Including tax returns

How about all your medical records and all your private correspondence with everyone you've ever known?
Want to publish them here?

Does it make a difference that I'm not running for public office, not seeking a position where my decisions would have any impact on you or anyone else participating in this discussion forum?

Probably not to some rabid glennds stalker who alleges he saw you pee on the flagpole when you were in kindergarten.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:11 pm ...

We like to think the government is inept. In certain cases you do NOT want to cross the government.

I just don't know of a tax return ever being leaked from the IRS. Do you?

Finally, your exact question was: "to leak some numbers to the press".

What credibility would you give to some numbers appearing in an article that stated it came from an unnamed source within the IRS? I'd suspect none.

Wouldn't we at least need to see the first page of the 1040 both signed by the taxpayer and the tax preparer?

And, even then, how do we know that it genuine and the real thing and not something someone created in a tax program?

Vinny

Great response, Vinny, thanks.
I absolutely believe that it isn't something you would do. Both from a sense of ethics and an understanding that it is a bad idea all the way around. I just don't have much faith that all of the IRS employees have that same ethos and common sense.

Here's hoping you are right.
Mark

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:44 amGreat response, Vinny, thanks.
I absolutely believe that it isn't something you would do. Both from a sense of ethics and an understanding that it is a bad idea all the way around. I just don't have much faith that all of the IRS employees have that same ethos and common sense.

Here's hoping you are right.
Mark

Vinny's right that I've never heard of anybody's tax information ever being leaked by the IRS. Which is really very impressive.

Simonjester wrote: given the way the IRS handled tax status applications from the tea party a little while ago, it seems likely that many do not have the ethical standards Vinny (and most of us) would expect and hope they have..

Yes, that was very messy and put a huge black mark on the entire organization, no question.

But on this specific issue, the leaking of citizens' personal information from the IRS, it seems they have a stellar track record.

Simonjester wrote: agreed but given past behavior, not leaking tax returns seems more like a line they haven't crossed than a line they "would never cross". i hope its a hard line, and that the system makes it an incredibly tough one to break,
but ....internal vigilance... price of liberty...

much like the way scorpions kill there Uber driver frogs at river crossings, we know the nature of unnamed bureaucrats..

I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.

Xan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.

Contrast that to just about every other branch of government where there seems to be leakers galore.

I do think it may have something to do with the IRS discretion to audit whoever it pleases and the threat to do so. Even if you have nothing to hide, the IRS can allege they found something and you do not want to then be in audit Hell trying to defend yourself. It's just you against the entire IRS.

Vinny

MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:42 am

Xan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am I'm not saying you're wrong.

But, wow, what a big juicy target that Trump tax return is. Would the NYT pay a leaker for it? I don't actually know. I'm guessing it's a federal crime to leak it, so probably they wouldn't pay.

Regardless, if that one hasn't leaked, it seems like the system is working pretty well.

It wouldn't have to necessarily be someone at the IRS. I have had to send the first page of my tax return to prove my income to various entities in the past. Theoretically, anyone at one of those firms could leak it.

Yes, that's a good point. Any time you take out a mortgage, for instance, they want years of tax returns. Same for other types of loan, I would imagine. And yet I've never heard of a tax return being leaked.

Simonjester wrote:
and on the topic of candidates song choices....... biden plays this

Biden then played a “Despacito,” a top song from a few years ago, that means “slowly” in English. The song is sexually graphic in nature.

The song, translated into English, states (warning—explicit lyrics):

I want to breathe in your neck slowly
Let me murmur things in your ear
So that you remember if you’re not with me
Slowly
I want to undress you in kisses slowly
Firmly in the walls of your labyrinth
And of your body, I want to create a manuscript
Up, up, up, up
I want to see your hair dance
I want to be your rhythm
Want you to show my mouth
Your favorite places (Favorite, favorite baby)
Let me trespass your danger zones
Until I make you scream
And you forget your last name
Slowly
We’re gonna do it on a beach in Puerto Rico
Until the waves scream Oh Lord

I expect the Trump campaign rally music chooser to immediately add this song!