Re: Fats and Health
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:56 pm
I'm interested to know what pro-sat-fat paleo folks around here think of this.
Permanent Portfolio Forum
https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/
https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6422
I'm not paleo (too many plants) but I am a big fan of getting most of my energy from saturated fat, alcohol and a wide variety of animal parts.moda0306 wrote: I'm interested to know what pro-sat-fat paleo folks around here think of this.
Mark,Mark Leavy wrote:I'm not paleo (too many plants) but I am a big fan of getting most of my energy from saturated fat, alcohol and a wide variety of animal parts.moda0306 wrote: I'm interested to know what pro-sat-fat paleo folks around here think of this.
I generally look at the mechanism the human body uses to store excess energy for future use. It stores it as saturated fat.
I also look at any diet that is a "weight loss" diet. That diet is high in saturated (human) fat.
I'm a simple man.
In all honesty, I think Paleo is a pretty reasonable way to eat. No complaints from me.Benko wrote: Would you care to say more about: "(too many plants)"? Unless you mean the nightshade thing which perhaps is an issue for some, but not many others.
Yes (most or best I can tell, almost all here agree).dragoncar wrote: It's been 7 pages, did you guys agree on anything yet? Saturated fat bad?
Really? All that blubbering spillover folds of fat on Ghostbusters-style Stay Puft obese people is saturated fat?Mark Leavy wrote: I generally look at the mechanism the human body uses to store excess energy for future use. It stores it as saturated fat.
At 98.6 degrees its not as hard as the lard in the refrigerator case, but pork lard is nearly identical in composition to human lard.MachineGhost wrote: Really? All that blubbering spillover folds of fat on Ghostbusters-style Stay Puft obese people is saturated fat?
i don't think it matters one bit what human fat is made of or the nature of its composition.. it matters what triggers its growth, the best explanation i have heard recently (i will do my best to recreate it) is that if you had to go out in the wild almost anywhere on the planet and collect/hunt food for your survival for a few weeks, and you counted the source of the calories you acquired and ate, they would end up being approximately 70 - 75% fat and around 20% protein, the few remaining percentage would be carbs. if the percentage of carbs goes up it is sign that there is an abundance and that your body should use that abundance to store those extra calories (from carbs) as fat (to see you through future famine).. this is the food reality that humanity evolved with for millions of years , having flour sugar and easy fast carbs in abundance for the last 100 or 1000 years hasn't changed how our body reacts to them.Mark Leavy wrote:At 98.6 degrees its not as hard as the lard in the refrigerator case, but pork lard is nearly identical in composition to human lard.MachineGhost wrote: Really? All that blubbering spillover folds of fat on Ghostbusters-style Stay Puft obese people is saturated fat?
I'm skeptical. At the homeostasis point of carbs (30% of calories), athletic performance starts to be impacted and gets very dramatic into anemia-like conditions when in the extreme of ketosis (0% carbs). I have a hard time visualizing our ancestors doing steady-state exercise from chasing wooly mammoths for miles on end on such a low carb diet as you suggest. I think both the diet composition and our image of what our ancestors did for exercise is probably somewhat wrong.l82start wrote: (eat fat you burn fat .... eat carbs you store the extra as fat - to burn as fat later)
it would seem to be saying that for endurance its beneficial. and for high intensity exercise it decreases ones ability, this would seem to me to suggest it works well for paleo survival needs/output and not so well for competitive athletics...It can be concluded that long-term, high fat diets may be favorable for aerobic endurance athletes, during the preparatory season, when a high volume and low to moderate intensity of training loads predominate in the training process. High volume training on a ketogenic diet increases fat metabolism during exercise, reduces body mass and fat content and decreases post exercise muscle damage. Low carbohydrate ketogenic diets decrease the ability to perform high intensity work, due to decreased glycogen muscle stores and the lower activity of glycolytic enzymes, which is evidenced by a lower LA concentration and a maximal work load during the last 15 min of the high intensity stage of the exercise protocol
Yes, but it's a horribly inefficient process with tons of steps and can't possibly work "on demand" for starving muscles.l82start wrote: doesn't protein get turned into glycogen? and Gluconeogenesis take place at a Stable Rate? (i am far from the in depth geek-out level you are at so you may have to dumb down the answer)
That shouldn't be surprising at all. Eat your egg yolks, dammit!MachineGhost wrote: This is a very interesting study. It claims that more cholesterol equates to more muscle hypertrophy, not protein or calories.
What do you guys make of these studies showing olive oil is inflammatory, and is not protective against coronary artery disease?Benko wrote:Agree. But that still leaves what to use for cooking: I believe you can only use good olive oil at low temp and perhaps medium temps. Plus there are some things that don't taste good with olive oil taste.MachineGhost wrote:Disagree. It's refined to death at lofty pizza oven temperatures, has too much oxidized Omega-6 damaged by the refining, may contain toxic erucic acid. Stick to unrefined, genuine olive oil.dragoncar wrote: MG, you've done a ton of research on this. I've heard that canola oil is maybe the best mainstream oil you're going to find, if you are picking the best of bad choices. Agree/disagree?
I would suspect that butter might be good for many people. I can't use butter (I have food allergy to dairy including butter) so I just use "regular" coconut oil (nutiva) or the kind without the coconut taste (Jarrow makes some). Other thoughts MT?
The study authors are vegans? More importantly, EVOO is NOT Vegan? It's quite a stretch to imagine there's some vegan conspiracy against olive oil.MachineGhost wrote: Ught, please don't listen to Vegan Wackos who cherry pick a decades old study or two to prove their ideology.
EVOO has tons of anti-inflammatory substances. It's called polyphenols and it prevents LDL oxidization, among other things. That research will completely overwhelm those Vegan Wacko's studies.
I mean V Wackos like Ornish and Campbell. Dean Ornish is a zero fat vegetarian zealot and T. Colin Campbell is a vegan zealot. They love to cherry pick outlier or flawed studies against the consensus that supports their delusional ideology. At least in Ornish's case you can point towards clinical efficacy. Campbell is just a huckster.dragoncar wrote: The study authors are vegans? More importantly, EVOO is NOT Vegan? It's quite a stretch to imagine there's some vegan conspiracy against olive oil.
Was it the schmaltz on your toast?Reub wrote: Funny but I raised my saturated fat intake and my cholesterol fell precipitously. Why must I always be such a renegade?