Anti-U.S. Protests in the Muslim World

[MomTo2Boys]

The same holds for those hoodlums in China, incited by their media to a destroy Japanese property.  Distract from the true economic issues and causes of corruption.

As an optimist, who notes no country with MacDonalds has ever invaded another, we need only wait for smartphones, wifi and the internet to infect the next generation.  They'll be so interested in keeping up with JLo they'll forget about who was the true messiah!

Um, there are tons and tons of McDonald's here in China. And also: Papa John's, Subway, KFC (okay, well, they don't really serve the traditional fare, but they're all over the place), Pizza Hut, etc.

Are you saying China would never invade anywhere else? Because China also has smartphones, wifi/internet, and JLo. Everything you listed. And more. They even have fluffy tiny status doggies carried around in designer handbags like what Paris Hilton does.

And the average Chinese person would be less inclined to destroy Japanese property if Japan hadn't been a horse's behind to them so long ago (times twelve) during their invasion of mainland China. Oh, and also- Japan might also consider admitting all of the atrocities that they perpetrated upon the Chinese during such and quit acting like the whole thing never happened.

The China-Japan thing. It's very complicated. But let me assure you in the strongest language that animosity against Japan here needs not the "media" for kindling.

[dualstow]

(Wikipedia) Under the Ottoman Empire, the Jews of Iraq fared better

I'm not sure I understand why you emphasized this. The Ottoman Empire was Islamic and had an extensive tradition of protecting religious minorities (Christians as well as Jews). Are you meaning that you think only Turkish and not Arab Islamic rulers can be trusted to protect minorities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Sigh, I guess I have to pull out your own quote, Stone. Please don't also ask me why I emphasized the two words in your quote:

How is that reconcilable with the idea that gets put about that Arab Muslims are irredeemably hell bent on attacking everyone who doesn't follow Islam?

--
@Mom2Boys: The Chinese-Japanese thing is interesting. Maybe there should be a moderately volatile thread on it. ;-) I learned a lot from two experts who weighed in on public tv last night on the DiaoYu/Senkaku islands, things I could not learn from my Chinese-born wife. It's definitely necessary for the government to not appear insufficiently nationalistic so they do stir the pot, but then they have to reign in the populace when they get violent. It's a difficult balancing game.
The experts also noted how there are 18-year-olds whose grandparents may have suffered from the Japanese, but the anger they have is somewhat unexplainable. Not to drag Israel into everything, but one of the commenters pointed out how 18-year-old Israelis just don't feel this about Germany.

[Reub]

Now I see that France will close 20 Middle Eastern embassies due to a silly cartoon.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120919-nak ... ench-paper

[stone]

dualstow

Sigh, I guess I have to pull out your own quote, Stone.

I understand now. Sorry for being so goofy!

[dualstow]

dualstow

Sigh, I guess I have to pull out your own quote, Stone.

I understand now. Sorry for being so goofy!

Anyway...I'm ordering you a virtual pint. (clinks glass)

[MomTo2Boys]

@Mom2Boys: The Chinese-Japanese thing is interesting. Maybe there should be a moderately volatile thread on it. ;-) I learned a lot from two experts who weighed in on public tv last night on the DiaoYu/Senkaku islands, things I could not learn from my Chinese-born wife. It's definitely necessary for the government to not appear insufficiently nationalistic so they do stir the pot, but then they have to reign in the populace when they get violent. It's a difficult balancing game.
The experts also noted how there are 18-year-olds whose grandparents may have suffered from the Japanese, but the anger they have is somewhat unexplainable. Not to drag Israel into everything, but one of the commenters pointed out how 18-year-old Israelis just don't feel this about Germany.

If you'd like to get a quick (and horrid) snapshot into the Japanese atrocities perpetrated upon China, a one-stop read might be about the Nanjing Massacre. The Japanese Army atrocities perpetrated upon innocent Chinese civilians shocks the soul to the core. The problem is that Japan continues, to this day, to officially deny all.

And I understand what you're saying about Israel vs. Germany, however, I very much disagree with those tv "experts." It is super easy to explain the anger.

Israel and Germany are geographically separated. China and Japan practically run into each other (literally) every day in the same (disputed) bodies of water - from war ships to trade ships, etc. - with Japan basically hosting our (U.S.) forces and opening the region up to our ships, etc., which has never thrilled China and which thrills them even less as time goes on, seeing as that we (China and the U.S.) are not the bestest of friendsies, especially in Asiatic waterways that surround China, who is extremely protectionist, and seeing as that the U.S. arms Japan, etc. It's all, as I said, very complicated, but the China vs. Japan thing has never stopped being an issue, which means old wounds have not healed, and since new wounds are often added, it all just sort of... festers. Hence the demonstrations (that I have been witnessing first hand), and hence the anger. And that's just the quick and dirty tip-of-the-iceberg version.

[dualstow]

Ok, I'm struggling to include something on-topic here, but I just go with a straight reply. Mods, I won't take offense you just delete it.

Yeah, the geographical proximity was mentioned in the program as being something of a factor.

I lived in Taiwan for a couple years, and it's so different from the mainland. Not much hatred of the Japanese. Young Taiwanese often imitate Japanese variety shows (well, so do the mainland Chinese), fashion, music, so many things. When I first arrived and couldn't speak much Mandarin, my students would ask me if I spoke Japanese, because then I could speak to Grandma. I couldn't, but after meeting enough grandparents, I was kind of surprised to learn how many of them reminisced about the education and sanitation during the Japanese occupation of the island. Couldn't get more different from the mainland in that respect, as you well know.

One thing that really struck me was the lack of coffee in China in convenient stores. I love all the boxes and cans of tea there, but I was used to cold coffee in a can like they have in Taiwan and Japan. Taiwanese are obsessed with making coffee, and they put Americans to shame with their diligent brewing. I always wondered if those little steel cans were also Japan's influence.

[MomTo2Boys]

Ok, I'm struggling to include something on-topic here, but I just go with a straight reply. Mods, I won't take offense you just delete it.

Yeah, the geographical proximity was mentioned in the program as being something of a factor.

I lived in Taiwan for a couple years, and it's so different from the mainland. Not much hatred of the Japanese. Young Taiwanese often imitate Japanese variety shows (well, so do the mainland Chinese), fashion, music, so many things. When I first arrived and couldn't speak much Mandarin, my students would ask me if I spoke Japanese, because then I could speak to Grandma. I couldn't, but after meeting enough grandparents, I was kind of surprised to learn how many of them reminisced about the education and sanitation during the Japanese occupation of the island. Couldn't get more different from the mainland in that respect, as you well know.

One thing that really struck me was the lack of coffee in China in convenient stores. I love all the boxes and cans of tea there, but I was used to cold coffee in a can like they have in Taiwan and Japan. Taiwanese are obsessed with making coffee, and they put Americans to shame with their diligent brewing. I always wondered if those little steel cans were also Japan's influence.

Oh no- not trying to get stuff deleted by the moderators!

Um, yes. Taiwan has had a very, very rough time of it.

And as to the real-life version of living in mainland China - I could go on forever. Mercifully, no one in my family is a coffee drinker, however - despair not, Dualstow! For nowadays there are Starbucks scattered liberally throughout every major Chinese city. Should you visit the mainland, you would be able to get your fix very easily!

[dualstow]

Ok, we need some more French Mohammed cartoon posts here! :-)
--
I visited my in-laws in the mainland last year. Starbucks but no good coffee in a can! Also took a tour of many Chinese cities in the late 90s.

Um, yes. Taiwan has had a very, very rough time of it.

Hm?

[MediumTex]

And as to the real-life version of living in mainland China - I could go on forever. Mercifully, no one in my family is a coffee drinker, however - despair not, Dualstow! For nowadays there are Starbucks scattered liberally throughout every major Chinese city. Should you visit the mainland, you would be able to get your fix very easily!

How's the air quality?

If you are American, I'm sure living over there is quite an adventure.  If your Chinese I'm sure it's an adventure too.

[MomTo2Boys]

How's the air quality?

If you are American, I'm sure living over there is quite an adventure.  If your Chinese I'm sure it's an adventure too.

The air quality is horrific. The US Embassy in Beijing and the US Consulate in Chengdu both have Twitter streams that track it, if you're interested. Some expats who move to China are newly diagnosed with asthma even though they never before had a history of such. It is common for a large amount of people to have walking lung infections. My family (me, my two boys, my husband) is very often sick in one form or another. Colds last for weeks, coughs never truly go away, ear infections, etc. For temporary visitors, though, it's not as bad. It takes your body a while - maybe six months? - before the weight of the ever-present airborne issues becomes something you live with or try to fight off daily, if your body is susceptible to these sorts of things. Some folks don't have as much of a problem with it - a lot of our friends are okay, I think, so really - not everyone suffers (I think). Our family tends to be susceptible to ear infections or continuing coughs, and so we have a harder time.

I'm an American. It don't get more American than the four of us. My husband, my children - we are all 100% white bread American. My husband and I speak Mandarin. My children are learning. My older son's Mandarin is better than my younger son's.

Dualstow, I have never seen coffee in a can. I have been to - oh, I don't know - about four major mainland cities I guess and I had never even heard of (let alone seen) coffee in a can until you spoke of it.

[MomTo2Boys]

Um, yes. Taiwan has had a very, very rough time of it.

Hm?

I was starting with a baseline of when the Japanese had Taiwan, as you had mentioned. If you look at Taiwan historically from just a bit prior to then all the way until now, they've been yanked around so much (politically, etc.) it's amazing they don't have whiplash.

When the Japanese were there, only the Japanese language was to be used/learned/spoken. The Japanese wanted them 100% absorbed into Japanese everything - language, culture, you name it. Students were rewarded based upon how much Japanese they learned and how Japanese they became. (Oh, and everything their industries produced went straight to Japan.) Then, seemingly overnight, they weren't just no longer Japanese but everything Japanese was HIDEOUS HORRID AWFUL and these people who had only learned Japanese were punished for only being able to speak it and nothing else (such as, you know, Chinese instead). But they could not leave and could not escape from the change - life changed overnight. Forcibly.

From then to now it's still been politically tumultuous. And they're sort of China and sort of not and if they try to be too not China then China has a cow, etc. And if we try to act like they're not China then China has a cow, but we can't very well act like they *are* China, etc. And is America REALLY going to sell that fighter jet (and/or whatever other weaponry thingees that Taiwan has been asking to buy for time and all eternity) to Taiwan? Or isn't it? (Lather, rinse, repeat.)

(That's what I meant.)

(But you probably know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do. These things are just my vague recollections.)

[MachineGhost]

A good movie taking place in Shanghai during this time -- but really tame as far as war atrocities go -- is Spielberg's Empire of the Sun featuring a young Christian Bale.

[dualstow]

From then to now it's still been politically tumultuous. And they're sort of China and sort of not and if they try to be too not China then China has a cow, etc.

Hong Kong is in a tricky situation in which they feel their one-country-two-policies deal is slipping away, but my experience was that Taiwan is its own country in every aspect except the paperwork and the embassies. I mean, they buy their own fighter planes, elect their own presidents, and write their own textbooks. When a mainlander met my Taiwanese friend in the States, he was quite shocked to know that she had no idea about any of the famous communist leaders he brought up. Not even their names. She knew the big ones that Americans know. "Don't they teach you this stuff in school?", exclaimed. Nope.

Still, there's always nervous talk of repatriation. China's getting kind of ... strong.

[Reub]

Who Lost Egypt?

I think that we all know the answer.

http://townhall.com/columnists/caroline ... page/full/

The question is why?

[Reub]

Death toll rises in Pakistan's anti U.S. protests.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012 ... 63113.html

Please read some of the comments after the article. Some are priceless.

[dualstow]

note: you can not access the comments with Chrome. Use IE [ugh]

I'm using Chrome and I can see "Showing 1-20 of 894 comments".
Top (chronological) comment right now is from one Kevin Sorensen.
Seems to display fine in Chrome.

[MediumTex]

How's the air quality?

If you are American, I'm sure living over there is quite an adventure.  If your Chinese I'm sure it's an adventure too.

The air quality is horrific. The US Embassy in Beijing and the US Consulate in Chengdu both have Twitter streams that track it, if you're interested. Some expats who move to China are newly diagnosed with asthma even though they never before had a history of such. It is common for a large amount of people to have walking lung infections. My family (me, my two boys, my husband) is very often sick in one form or another. Colds last for weeks, coughs never truly go away, ear infections, etc. For temporary visitors, though, it's not as bad. It takes your body a while - maybe six months? - before the weight of the ever-present airborne issues becomes something you live with or try to fight off daily, if your body is susceptible to these sorts of things. Some folks don't have as much of a problem with it - a lot of our friends are okay, I think, so really - not everyone suffers (I think). Our family tends to be susceptible to ear infections or continuing coughs, and so we have a harder time.

That sounds awful.  Not having good air to breathe would be a drag.  Do people wear masks?

I'm an American. It don't get more American than the four of us. My husband, my children - we are all 100% white bread American. My husband and I speak Mandarin. My children are learning. My older son's Mandarin is better than my younger son's.

What brought you to China?

[stone]

Death toll rises in Pakistan's anti U.S. protests.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012 ... 63113.html

Please read some of the comments after the article. Some are priceless.

Reub, I'm not sure I understand what you are aiming at with your message that Islam=peril for everyone else. Surely you recognise that many individual muslims are good natured, warm hearted people who just want to get along peacefully with the rest of us. Some Muslims are fanatics filled with hate just as are some aetheists and some Buddists etc (yes the most hard line bigot I know is a Sri Lankan Buddist). I don't see how villification of Islam or collective punishment of muslim people is supposed to do anything other than switch muslim people from being the good natured to being the hate filled type. Are you aiming to make life so tough for Muslims that they all die out or what?

[Reub]

It is a matter of scale. Although most Muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists are Muslims.

We cannot have a pie-in-the-sky attitude when dealing with these nations or we will succumb to their violence and repression. You do not remove friendly dictators unless you are assured that you end up with something better. Just look at Iran. And the new Iran....namely, Egypt.

[BearBones]

It is a matter of scale. Although most Muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists are Muslims.

Wow! That is a bigoted, dangerous, and narrow-minded statement. Interesting that none of those sensitive to anti-semitism are speaking up. Maybe off line? How do you define terrorist, Reub?

[MediumTex]

It is a matter of scale. Although most Muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists are Muslims.

Wow! That is a bigoted, dangerous, and narrow-minded statement. Interesting that none of those sensitive to anti-semitism are speaking up. Maybe off line? How do you define terrorist, Reub?

Maybe Reub meant that most radical Islamic terrorists are Muslims.

[Reub]

There is nothing bigoted about it. Most terrorists are obviously Muslim. Have you checked the news this century?

[murphy_p_t]

It is a matter of scale. Although most Muslims are not terrorists, most terrorists are Muslims.

Wow! That is a bigoted, dangerous, and narrow-minded statement. Interesting that none of those sensitive to anti-semitism are speaking up. Maybe off line? How do you define terrorist, Reub?

BearBones...is his statement false, in your view? If so, please elaborate.

[BearBones]

Maybe Reub meant that most radical Islamic terrorists are Muslims.

Perhaps. Reub can clarify. It is also true that most radical Jewish terrorists are Jewish.

There is nothing bigoted about it. Most terrorists are obviously Muslim. Have you checked the news this century?

I see. Nothing bigoted about it as long as it is true, right? So how do we define terrorists? People that kill innocent people in the name of x? People that suppress the freedoms of other people in the interest of x? Be very specific, please.

as with any back testing the results you get will depend on the start date you pick, i suspect century is to big a time span to make the statement true, if your start date is "the last few decades" it would probably be more accurate, my "wild ass guess" is if you look at a century the number one group causing terrorism would be governments, number two would be religions in general, for specific ideology's that generate terrorism i suspect communism would be number one and a couple other political ideology's would rank higher than Islam, although it might rank number one for religious ideology but only if you don't start your back test to far in the past....