Gyroscopic Investing

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: My own personal conclusion is that the universe is pointless, but realizing this is terribly depressing, so each human must, in order to avoid succumbing to depression, avoid realizing this by never asking the relevant questions or subscribing to a faith that argues against it.

Oh rubbish.  Life is not pointless or it wouldn't have come about nor would there be that annoying breeding motivation.  The universe is the ultimate breeding ground for all life forms. 

MachineGhost wrote: PS is probably just suffering from post-partum depression.  We give very little credence to our emotional states as deriving from physical non-homeostasis while it is occuring.

Pointedstick wrote: Well that part is true, although it was my wife's diagnosis.

Pointedstick wrote: Well, to clarify, it's a bit late for post-partum depression as the kid is now almost 2 years old. But we both think I have some form of depression.

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: Well, to clarify, it's a bit late for post-partum depression as the kid is now almost 2 years old. But we both think I have some form of depression.

What you choose to focus on in your mind is manifested mentally and physically.  So stop focusing all on the goddamn negatives!   Religious types seemingly get high on their faith; if they can manage that with no factual evidence, you can surely find uplifting things to focus on.  It requires constant discipline to turn from the focusing on the negative to the positive everytime you find yourself starting to do it.  You won't be able to do it 100% of the time after the initial break-in period, but the point is the art of the discipline and distraction, not perfection.

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: Well, to clarify, it's a bit late for post-partum depression as the kid is now almost 2 years old. But we both think I have some form of depression.

What you choose to focus on in your mind is manifested mentally and physically.  So stop focusing all on the goddamn negatives!   Religious types seemingly get high on their faith; if they can manage that with no factual evidence, you can surely find uplifting things to focus on.  It requires constant discipline to turn from the focusing on the negative to the positive everytime you find yourself starting to do it.  You won't be able to do it 100% of the time after the initial break-in period, but the point is the art of the discipline and distraction, not perfection.

MachineGhost wrote:

ns3 wrote: Substitute "religion" for the "the law" and you have the Bible saying that religion is not the source of morality.

Well, that was certainly was the basis for our Founding Fathers!  Reason alone is the basis for morality; the problem is reason needs to be taught and I don't see anyone in our modern society currently in the position of teaching secular reason to promote widespread morality.  Everyone has a damn agenda, even secular humanists.

Everyone should watch The Tudors series (fair warning: it's EXTREMELY sexual and violent and NOT in a good way) and just marvel at the depraved inspirations for the founding of the good ol' USA.  I, for one, am glad we overcame that as a species because the alternative is unthinkable.

moda0306 wrote:

MachineGhost wrote:

ns3 wrote: Substitute "religion" for the "the law" and you have the Bible saying that religion is not the source of morality.

Well, that was certainly was the basis for our Founding Fathers!  Reason alone is the basis for morality; the problem is reason needs to be taught and I don't see anyone in our modern society currently in the position of teaching secular reason to promote widespread morality.  Everyone has a damn agenda, even secular humanists.

Everyone should watch The Tudors series (fair warning: it's EXTREMELY sexual and violent and NOT in a good way) and just marvel at the depraved inspirations for the founding of the good ol' USA.  I, for one, am glad we overcame that as a species because the alternative is unthinkable.

You should get into our "Proving Morality" thread.

Most of us are asserting that morality cannot be proven, logically.  Kshartle and a couple others seem to think it can.  Do you think morality can be logically proven?  If so, please contribute to that other thread.

PS, where the hell have you been? Good to have you back!

Kshartle wrote:

moda0306 wrote:

MachineGhost wrote: Well, that was certainly was the basis for our Founding Fathers!  Reason alone is the basis for morality; the problem is reason needs to be taught and I don't see anyone in our modern society currently in the position of teaching secular reason to promote widespread morality.  Everyone has a damn agenda, even secular humanists.

Everyone should watch The Tudors series (fair warning: it's EXTREMELY sexual and violent and NOT in a good way) and just marvel at the depraved inspirations for the founding of the good ol' USA.  I, for one, am glad we overcame that as a species because the alternative is unthinkable.

You should get into our "Proving Morality" thread.

Most of us are asserting that morality cannot be proven, logically.  Kshartle and a couple others seem to think it can.  Do you think morality can be logically proven?  If so, please contribute to that other thread.

PS, where the hell have you been? Good to have you back!

I am going to get back to that one I promise. I have to "ban" myself from other threads that tickle my fancy to support the effort needed.

Mountaineer wrote: "When I saw that the book “Heaven Is for Real”? was being released as a movie, I knew that I would probably feel compelled to write a blog post about it.

ns3 wrote:

Mountaineer wrote: "When I saw that the book “Heaven Is for Real”? was being released as a movie, I knew that I would probably feel compelled to write a blog post about it.

I've read and enjoyed a few books about NDEs, the last one being Proof of Heaven, but I decided to skip this one. My reason is probably the opposite of yours however. I understand the experience took place when the boy was 3 years old and having a pastor as a father I figured it would probably be too "Biblical". According to some reviews on Amazon that seems to be the case with the boys remembrance of events corresponding very well to the pastor's religious beliefs. Count me skeptical.

Mountaineer wrote: The sentence you quoted was from a Lutheran Pastor, not me, followed by his sermon on the subject.  Personally, I believe all God reveals to us about the "end times" has been included in Scripture and I'm very skeptical about other sources that claim to have been to "heaven".  I will not discount those NDE experiences, because God can do anything, but, personally I don't think we will know anymore about the end times until Jesus returns on the last day. 
... Mountaineer

Desert wrote: ns3, did you ever get a chance to see "Thief in the Night?"  It was the original rapture movie, I believe.

Desert wrote: But as I've studied the Bible in more detail, I don't see much support for the idea of a rapture.

ns3 wrote:

Desert wrote: But as I've studied the Bible in more detail, I don't see much support for the idea of a rapture.

Me neither. If I had not read The Late Great Planet earth I think I would have concluded from simply reading the Bible that you would rather not be one of the people taken away by the Thief in the Night,or the woman taken while grinding at the mill, or one taken away as in the days of Noah. Seems to me you would rather be Left Behind.

Today I hold those who preach about the End Times in about the same esteem as I do purveyors of financial "doom porn". I think they have a lot in common.

MediumTex wrote: Based upon the Christian worldview being described above, it seems like the following conclusions would logically flow:

1. Prior to Jesus's ministry, Heaven was populated exclusively by Jewish people.  Prior to Jesus's ministry, all non-Jews and Jews who didn't obey the Law went to Hell where they will suffer for all of eternity.

AND

2. After Jesus's ministry, Heaven was populated almost exclusively by non-Jewish people (with the exception of the small population of messianic Jews).  After Jesus's ministry, most Jews have gone to Hell, where they will suffer for eternity.

***

In other words, the identical behavior--i.e., a Jewish person following the Law--at one point in time was a ticket to Heaven, and at another point in time was a ticket to Hell.  When you really think about it, there would have to have been a moment in time (unless there were some kind of "phase-in period") where literally all Jews who died before it would go to Heaven and all Jews who died after it would go to Hell based upon the identical beliefs and actions during life.

I know that God moves in mysterious ways, but the idea that all of the Jews who Hitler slaughtered are now in Hell, while Hitler is now in Heaven (he was a Christian, after all) just strikes me as very dissonant.

In fact, the whole idea of the Jewish God basically setting things up so that Jews who follow the Jewish Law will suffer in Hell for all of eternity doesn't make sense to me.  The response to that observation may be: "Well, it may not make any sense, but that's the way it works."  Sometimes, though, if enough things don't make any sense, it can be a way of realizing that a certain set of beliefs may not be true.

For example:

Who did Adam and Eve's son Cain marry?

How did Noah fit all of the animals in the world in one boat?  Even if you could travel the whole world to collect all of those animals (which you couldn't back then), they simply wouldn't fit in a single boat that could have been built back then.

How do the cave paintings by primitive humans all over the world fit into the Adam and Eve creation story?  If the Bible is inerrant, the geneology starting with Adam and Eve only goes back 6,000 years or so.  How do we overlay that with what we otherwise know about the history of our own species?

Where does Neanderthal man fit into the Adam and Even/Garden of Eden narrative?  Was the Garden of Eden a paradise for Cro-Magnon man only?

Is it possible that Satan is the one who buried all of those bones and did those cave paintings just to throw people off of the one true path? 

Those are just a few things that cross my mind here and there.

murphy_p_t wrote: My understanding, from the historic Catholic perspective, needs a little background. Mountaineer posted the Apostles Creed, which says, in part, that Jesus descended into Hell after he was crucified. My understanding is that the hell he descended to is different from the hell of the damned, who will remain there for all eternity (no more chance of redemption...they have consciously made this choice, like the angels who rebelled against God). The hell Jesus went down to was more like a holding place for the Just, who were waiting for the Sacrifice on Calvary to occur. It was hell because they were not able to be fully united with God in heaven yet. Jesus went down to bring them into heaven. This is why the dead were raised after the Resurrection and points to the belief that our bodies, even today, will rise from the grave, in the future.

murphy_p_t wrote: i know very little abt the JWs...can u elaborate?

Tortoise wrote: I never quite understood the idea that burial in a coffin "preserves" the body, as opposed to cremation. First, the body still rots away in the grave, and second, I think the Creator of the Universe is probably able to reconstruct a body from ash just as easily as from dust and bone.