Gyroscopic Investing

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:35 am I'd say all expenses except taxes, medicare, ss etc.

Living in a house is a choice, so is health insurance, car insurance etc.

Pointedstick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:01 am I don't track my expenses anymore. What I do is limit the amount of money in my checking account every month (the rest automatically goes into savings and investments), and give myself and my wife private spending accounts. Within the limits of the money in these accounts, anything goes.

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:35 am I'd say all expenses except taxes, medicare, ss etc.

Living in a house is a choice, so is health insurance, car insurance etc.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:06 pm That works if you pay cash for everything. The problem is that credit card spending is a whole lot harder to limit without tracking. Of course, if your spending pattern is stable (as I'm guessing yours is), that might not be so much of a problem. I'm unfortunately very much subject to "spending creep" and have to keep an eye out for that. Also, you just have to be the kind of person who likes to track expenses.

Pointedstick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:49 pm

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:06 pm That works if you pay cash for everything. The problem is that credit card spending is a whole lot harder to limit without tracking. Of course, if your spending pattern is stable (as I'm guessing yours is), that might not be so much of a problem. I'm unfortunately very much subject to "spending creep" and have to keep an eye out for that. Also, you just have to be the kind of person who likes to track expenses.

We use credit cards but we typically pay them off after every expense to the balance is zero.

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Xan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:16 pm Erm... It's now illegal to not have health insurance.

I thought individual mandate was overridden. Am I mistaken?

WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:57 am So happy to see a financial thread that isn't about active investing!!!! I'm in!!!

Anyone want to share full year expenses?

In 2020 so far, with all the December bills paid and very little further spending planned, my expenses ran to $48,700 not counting the mortgage or the kitchen renovation. This included buying a new Macbook Pro and paying about $5K for my cat's emergency surgery and followup care. And a few thousand of stuff for my mom. The largest expense is co-op maintenance, which is probably more than what most of you pay for the items it includes (property tax, utilities, grounds & infrastructure maintenance, capital assessment). On the other hand, I don't own a car and don't spend a lot on public transportation since day to day work & errands are all walkable.

It probably helped that restaurant & cultural events were a non-item in 2020 though. No Broadway shows, comedy clubs, house concerts, operas, museums etc.

Don't know if you guys would consider that a lot or a little for a single person, but I'm pretty happy with that level of spending.

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:45 pm

Pointedstick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:51 am

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:35 am I'd say all expenses except taxes, medicare, ss etc.

Living in a house is a choice, so is health insurance, car insurance etc.

It's interesting how elastic the definition of "mandatory" can become.

You have to live somewhere, and whatever choice you make, that has costs. Living in an apartment, a camper van, or a tent in the woods all involve some monetary costs. I suppose living with your parents or in a group home may not strictly speaking cost any money, but your mental health will be paying the cost instead.

A car is technically optional, but in many (most?) parts of the USA, not having one means that your ability to interact with the rest of your community is reduced to almost nothing. Maybe not in 2020, but in general. So sure, technically it's not mandatory, but let's face it, if you're living in Phoenix, you're going to have a car. With air conditioning. Lots of air conditioning.

Yes, but those options all have wildly different costs. A car might be non optional practically speaking but what kind, how much you drive it, whether you maintain yourself or take to shop are all options. Same with shelter, food, etc. Othertimes some options eliminate others... living in a city meant I didn't need a car but had to buy all my food.

I was able to get my expenses down to about 12k at the cheapest..Which is pretty much in line with Mr. money Mustache..

Here is his 2019 for those interested.




MMM’s 2019 Bachelor Life Spending
(all figures are for the full year)



Housing
Mortgage + Insurance 0 Bought the current house ($315k) with cash, and I have been self-insured on houses for the last 5 years or so. Not for everyone but it feels right for me.

Property Taxes $1735 My current place is a 3Br/2Ba home in an “up and coming” (i.e. working class) central area. Downside: pickup trucks everywhere. Upside: cheap to buy, and located on creek and bike path. Walk/ride everywhere!

Maintenance and Renovation $4699 Renovated my kitchen (IKEA), plus assorted painting + lights

Utilities – City $1227 Electric + Water + Trash service. Average electric = $24/month including electric car charging.

Utilities – Heat $353 Natural Gas service (incl. hot water)
Household Items $294 Things like lamps, picture frames, vegetable peelers, wine glasses at places like Target.

Total Housing $8308

Food
Groceries $4615 Mostly fresh, organic higher-end stuff. For one active man and 1/2 time of a growing teen boy. Costco/Sam’s whenever possible, plus Whole Foods for more specialized items, and because it’s within walking distance.

Restaurants $910 Many more nights out in this new life – expensive but fun.

Beer/Wine/etc $203

Total “Food“ $5728

Medical Care

Health Insurance $0 I decided to self-insure for 2019 as an experiment (because the US coverage mandate was removed), to see if I found it stressful/scary. Article on this to come!

Medical Bills $0 Had a truly fortunate year again – capping 45 years with just about zero medical costs so far. Will not take this for granted!

Dentist $0 Confession: I have only been ONCE in the last 25 years. Complacent because I’ve never had a cavity. Teeth are fine and clean. Am I pushing my luck?

Automotive
Gasoline $22.62 1999 Honda Odyssey – used mainly for construction hauling. I do lend it frequently to friends, but they return it full of gas. But I walk and bike for all of my in-town transportation.

Maintenance $0 She had a perfect year (although with low mileage, car breakages are rare)

Car Registration $545 For van, cargo trailer, and Nissan Leaf shared with former Mrs. MM

Insurance $397 Mainly for the Leaf because it includes comprehensive (long story) – this is my half of the shared policy cost. Still using Geico and it’s great.

Automotive Total $965

Travel Total $3702 Plane tickets, car rentals, airport transport. Interestingly, most accommodation was “free” due to staying with friends, credit card points and AirBnb Referrals.

Entertainment $400 Plays, Books, Netflix, Google Play movie rentals, even a couple Oculus VR video games.

Mobile Phone $300 I’m still on Google Fi. It’s $20 per month+data, a solid value for lower data users – I like the free international coverage.

Internet $600 This is expensive because we buy Longmont’s gigabit fiber internet, but well worth it for a household of blogger/video gamer/youtubers.

Total $21,470 Hey, not bad!

Total “Barebones” $13,068 My real (still luxurious) living expenses without the travel and $5000 kitchen renovation. Still includes restaurants, booze, cars, gadgets from Amazon, and living in a 3 bedroom detached house!

MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:34 pm Multi millionaire or not, you would be insane to self insure. One serious health crisis can lead to bills in the millions of dollars. And really, the best part of insurance is the network discount.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:34 pm

Pointedstick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:49 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Xan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:16 pm Erm... It's now illegal to not have health insurance.

I thought individual mandate was overridden. Am I mistaken?

You're not mistaken. They got rid of the penalty fee in 2017. I guess technically the mandate is still there, but there's no penalty for violating it, sooooooo six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Health insurance costs are usuriously expensive, but this is just because health care costs themselves are usuriously expensive. I might risk it and "self insure" if I was younger and single, but with a family, no way.

MMM is comfortable self-insuring because he's a multi-millionaire. But then there's the other angle: when you're that rich, you can also easily afford the insurance costs.

Multi millionaire or not, you would be insane to self insure. One serious health crisis can lead to bills in the millions of dollars. And really, the best part of insurance is the network discount.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm
Did they mean he and she are now divorced?

Vinny

yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:03 pm

MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:34 pm

Pointedstick wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:49 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Xan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:16 pm Erm... It's now illegal to not have health insurance.

I thought individual mandate was overridden. Am I mistaken?

You're not mistaken. They got rid of the penalty fee in 2017. I guess technically the mandate is still there, but there's no penalty for violating it, sooooooo six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Health insurance costs are usuriously expensive, but this is just because health care costs themselves are usuriously expensive. I might risk it and "self insure" if I was younger and single, but with a family, no way.

MMM is comfortable self-insuring because he's a multi-millionaire. But then there's the other angle: when you're that rich, you can also easily afford the insurance costs.

Multi millionaire or not, you would be insane to self insure. One serious health crisis can lead to bills in the millions of dollars. And really, the best part of insurance is the network discount.

I believe that Mr. Mustache is quite wealthy.

Did anyone read that hilarious April Fool's joke he played on all of us wherein it started with him telling us that he and his wife were each driving Mercedes and led us to believe he had become a total sellout?

at the end he revealed that the joke was on us.

I read about his insurance thing. I cannot remember whether on not he had a stop loss policy which does work well if you are self-insuring.

Finally his web site is wildly popular and he earns huge amounts of money from people clicking on and buying his recommendations.

I believe his web site is #1 in the world for generating revenues for such things.

I'll do a search for an updated version of the table I saw several years ago and put it here if I can find it. That was about five years ago and the amount was astounding then. I'm sure it would be only even more astounding today.

Vinny

yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:27 pm [

This what I have found so far from five years ago:

https://personalfinancenews.com/mr-mone ... -his-blog/


What is the net worth of Mr. Money Mustache?
Mr. Money Mustache retired at age thirty so he’s already financial independent back in 2005 with over $1 million. After retirement, Mr. Adeney earned even more money with his blog and eventually he is now earning around $400,000 a year. Mr. Adeney doesn’t give out the exact number for his net worth, but the extrapolated net worth of Mr. Money Mustache is between $3 million to $5 million. Keep in mind he’s still relatively young so his net worth is still growing at an exponential rate.


Vinny