Gyroscopic Investing

doodle wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 12:58 pm I really am in a pickle with regards to voting this election. I see incredible downsides to both candidates. Both sides of the political spectrum have been radicalized to a degree that is frightening. I am really hopeful that if things continue to spiral in this country a third party candidate enters the race. Would any Republicans here consider jumping parties to either a third party or a democratic late entrant of more moderate persuasion...a Mark Cuban type character perhaps?

No to Mark Cuban.
Actually, I live in a state where the electoral votes are pre-ordained. So I can and usually do vote for a third party, just because.

If I was in a battleground state, I'd vote for Trump. I'm about fed up with him. I think he is losing his cool. In his desperation I can see that he thinks in terms of manipulation. Everywhere and always, he is trying to manipulate. But I will be forever grateful to him for smashing the GOP and Democratic parties. I am not sure where the former is headed. It can only improve. The DP seems to be headed off a cliff with their feet on the gas like Thelma and Louise. Good riddance.

My greatest fear with the Democratic party is that just like the communists, they have a naive idea of human nature. I think they underestimate the challenges that great amounts of diversity pose to maintaining a cohesive nation. I don't think they see the potential dangers that lurk behind trying to only focus on the caring aspects of human nature and ignoring the the tribal insular aspects, in the same way that the communists underestimated the effects that human greed and selfishness would have on their Marxist paradise. But that in some ways is the nature of the two parties, liberals pushing the envelope and focusing on our potential and higher aspirations as a human race, and the conservatives reminding us of our fallable nature.

Good points.
I like the description of conservativism as being skeptical of innovations, because most innovations are failures. OTOH a lot of the progress western civilization has made has happened against the resistance of conservatives.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 8:43 pm Good points.
I like the description of conservativism as being skeptical of innovations, because most innovations are failures. OTOH a lot of the progress western civilization has made has happened against the resistance of conservatives.

If it weren't for liberals, we would still be ruled by Kings and Queens.

We need both forces. If one uses a car as an analogy then liberals would be like the gas and conservatives would be like the brakes. You can't have just one without the other and hope to get down the road.

In some ways I blame the media for where we are at today. Somewhere along the way reporting turned into hack political punditry. The news has become entirely about crafting stories rather than reporting facts. Ultimately a great deal of blame for the unraveling of our democracy lies at their feet. In addition, the amount of big money involved in our political system and the intense power of corporate lobbying over our politicians is another huge issue. I'm not very optimistic about the next few decades in this country. I think we have a lot of headwinds...but I am pessimistic by nature.

Well put doodle!!!

I would add one thing: We no longer have a liberal party. I remember an analogy my dad described to me once: political views are not a straight line, they're a circle. Traditional liberals vs conservatives should be 180 degrees apart (at 90 and 270 degrees). Centrists, between liberal and conservative, are at the 0 degree mark. When either the liberal or conservative view gets more extreme they head toward the 180 degree mark, i.e. they become indistinguishable. The common theme is the desire for complete control of society & the economy, which is a good description of the current Democratic party. The Republicans are all over the map, but I think that on balance they're mostly straight conservative.

You just have to watch how poitical views are twisted by the media. For example, the idea of a merit-based immigration system is something we need yesterday, and it's how virtually all other First World countries operate. I would actually classify it as a centrist policy, even a liberal one since it dispenses with nation-based quotas. Yet somehow, the media and the Democratic party portray it as far-right racist and fully indicative of Trump's racist and authoritarian nature. If you're not constantly on guard against this sort of manipulation, you might fall prey to it. (And yes note I said "manipulation" - sure Trump is in campaign mode, but do you really think he's the only one trying to spin his political record?)

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:35 am

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 8:43 pm Good points.
I like the description of conservativism as being skeptical of innovations, because most innovations are failures. OTOH a lot of the progress western civilization has made has happened against the resistance of conservatives.

If it weren't for liberals, we would still be ruled by Kings and Queens.

Probably so. Thank god for those gun-toting liberal hillbillies.

We need both forces. If one uses a car as an analogy then liberals would be like the gas and conservatives would be like the brakes. You can't have just one without the other and hope to get down the road.

PS had a good notion when he talked about how we work better when the niches of each political leaning are operating effectively. I don't remember where it was, but pretty much lefties and righties tend to sort themselves into different occupations, and it's good for each side when they do them in good faith. The lefty reporter putting out solid information is good for society as a whole just like a righty police officer keeping good order on his beat is good for society... and at the other end, lefty reporters spewing out constant agitprop is bad for society just like a corrupt police officer brutalizing citizens and falsifying evidence is.

In some ways I blame the media for where we are at today. Somewhere along the way reporting turned into hack political punditry. The news has become entirely about crafting stories rather than reporting facts. Ultimately a great deal of blame for the unraveling of our democracy lies at their feet. In addition, the amount of big money involved in our political system and the intense power of corporate lobbying over our politicians is another huge issue.

Yes. And to your second point, even big pools of money being thrown around within journalism seem like a bad thing, as in this case and with the venture capital-funded websites that put out agitprop.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 am Well put doodle!!!

I would add one thing: We no longer have a liberal party. I remember an analogy my dad described to me once: political views are not a straight line, they're a circle.

Nope, they are a diamond: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:15 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 am Well put doodle!!!

I would add one thing: We no longer have a liberal party. I remember an analogy my dad described to me once: political views are not a straight line, they're a circle.

Nope, they are a diamond: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

I guess I'm in the right forum?

Vinny

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:07 am

We need both forces. If one uses a car as an analogy then liberals would be like the gas and conservatives would be like the brakes. You can't have just one without the other and hope to get down the road.

PS had a good notion when he talked about how we work better when the niches of each political leaning are operating effectively.

Major content warning, but I think Team America said it best.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:30 am

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:15 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 am Well put doodle!!!

I would add one thing: We no longer have a liberal party. I remember an analogy my dad described to me once: political views are not a straight line, they're a circle.

Nope, they are a diamond: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

I guess I'm in the right forum?

Vinny

Capture.JPG

Apparently so! I'm a bit surprised that you were in that quadrant, but welcome to the club!

Personal Issues
Score
50
Economic Issues
Score
80
Centrist

Centrist prefer a "middle ground" regarding government control of the economy and personal behavior. Depending on the issue, they sometimes favor government intervention and sometimes support individual freedom of choice. Centrists pride themselves on keeping an open mind, tend to oppose "political extremes," and emphasize what they describe as "practical" solutions to problems.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:30 am

Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:15 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 am Well put doodle!!!

I would add one thing: We no longer have a liberal party. I remember an analogy my dad described to me once: political views are not a straight line, they're a circle.

Nope, they are a diamond: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

I guess I'm in the right forum?

Vinny

Capture.JPG

When I first read Mountaineer's description of the Centrist, I was jealous. Now that a few other of you have posted your pictures of your result I now realize the value of that red dot. I see that I'm not far from being a Centrist and that I more towards the left than the right.

Vinny

Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:09 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:07 am

We need both forces. If one uses a car as an analogy then liberals would be like the gas and conservatives would be like the brakes. You can't have just one without the other and hope to get down the road.

PS had a good notion when he talked about how we work better when the niches of each political leaning are operating effectively.

Major content warning, but I think Team America said it best.

Here's my results.

Just saw that the God Emperor wants to designate Antifa as a terror organization (I don't think he can, but his heart's in the right place).



On the other side of the spectrum, Joe Biden's campaign is donating to an organization that is posting bail for rioters in Minneapolis.

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:00 pm Just saw that the God Emperor wants to designate Antifa as a terror organization (I don't think he can, but his heart's in the right place).



On the other side of the spectrum, Joe Biden's campaign is donating to an organization that is posting bail for rioters in Minneapolis.

You know, I don't think that is going to help Biden in Minnesota.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:11 pmCapture.JPG

Believe whatever you want. I see absolutely no likelihood that it’ll turn out that way.

James Mattis vs orange guy

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,”.

“We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership,”

Most of the work being done to divide the people is being done by the mass media, which fits with Trump's accurate description of them as the enemy of the people and fake news.

Trump is just being himself, which he always has been before and after the election. The people voted him in, and they can vote him out this November if they want to.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:41 pm Most of the work being done to divide the people is being done by the mass media, which fits with Trump's accurate description of them as the enemy of the people and fake news.

Absolutely.

WRT Mattis' statements that doodle referenced; I agree that this is a law enforcement matter, but some of his points are ignorant. I mean, he says

"When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution," Mattis said in a statement published in The Atlantic.

"Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens —much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside," Mattis wrote, referring to a series of events on Monday in which peaceful protesters were physically cleared from around the White House to make way for an appearance by the president, Bible in hand, outside a historic church.

Mattis called Monday's actions "an abuse of executive authority." link

He seems to be conveniently forgetting that 50 years ago was only 3 years after the 82nd Airborne and 101st Airborne were deployed to Detroit to help get their riots under control. He also said there are only "a small number of lawbreakers," which is basically retard-speak to any inquisitive person with an internet connection.

Note that this is from NPR and so it's biased and contains false/misleading information.

How many people who have worked with Trump and had distinguished careers in private industry, government, or military saying he's an awful leader is it going to take? It's almost a religious fanaticism amongst his supporters. There is literally no amount of evidence from people within his administration or crazy shit that he can say or do to make some people realize how awful of a leader Trump is. It's like trying to prove to a flat earther that the world is round, there is no amount of evidence you can provide to convince them that we live on a sphere. Trump is a religion...

Doodle,

The guy has led a business empire for decades. Sure he started from a rich dad, but there have been lots of sons who started with $30M and ended up broke. If he was a terrible leader, he wouldn't be worth whatever he's worth today.

I'd say the religious fanatics are those who believe anything that comes from the mass media today. They have an agenda. If you want to believe what they say, be my guest, but you should know that they don't have your best interests at heart.

We don't really know anything about Trump's net worth or how he has done, it is all so obfuscated. I think it has been pegged at around 2 billion by Forbes...but then there is this.

A 2016 analysis of Trump's business career in The Economist concluded that his performance since 1985 had been "mediocre compared with the stock market and property in New York".[44] A subsequent analysis in The Washington Post similarly noted that Trump's estimated net worth of $100 million in 1978 would have increased to $6 billion by 2016 if he had invested it in a typical retirement fund, and concluded that "Trump is a mix of braggadocio, business failures, and real success."[45]

So really, how successful has he been as a businessperson? Again, I have worked with contractors for years who worked on projects for Trump where he refused to pay them for services rendered. These were honest hard working guys (I know because I worked with them for years) they had nothing but awful things to say about the man...as I'm sure you would if you had worked for him as well. A fortune built off of scamming other people nothing to be proud of

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe your idea of the kind of leadership we need right now is just plain wrong? You would probably want some smooth talking guy who would get up and try to coddle all the losers that want to burn down the country. Maybe what we need is a straight talker who just tells it like it is and doesn't coddle anybody. Sure we have some problems with racism here and there, but if an unbiased person listed the top 50 problems in the country, I bet racism wouldn't even be in the top 10, and yet the mass media is determined that the country should burn because America is supposedly such a racist country. Maybe what we need is a leader who is not willing to bow down to such lies.

But if you think your idea of leadership is so much better than Trump's, you are certainly welcome to run for president in November.