First they came for the working class

[MediumTex]

Legalizing pot would help this without a corresponding downside of any significance.

Pot has plenty of downsides despite popular opinion.

Such as what?

It can cause you to make poor dietary decisions.

[Pointedstick]

I've thought quite the opposite.  The higher you are on the career/income ladder, the more complicated life gets.  The guy hanging out by the lamp post just outside my office window looks like they are just coasting through life and haven't a care in the world.  Whereas I'm in here trying to juggle impossible deadlines, dealing with backstabbing colleagues, and doing all the little things one must do to continue to meet the expectations that have been building up as a result of past successes.  And, none of which makes me immune to the long list of life events that Mountaineer has provided.  They happen to all of us, no exceptions.

So ironically, I'm saying that a truly "simple" life can be deadly.  People need challenges and complications in their lives.

That seems unlikely to me. People's lives are all hard, just in different ways. Working class people tend to favor work that is dirty, dangerous, and easily taken by automation, outsourcing, and immigrants. As a result, they often face the kind of prolonged unemployment and its attendant loss of self-identity that college-educated professionals rarely do. They get into more fights and live in more violent areas so they have more contact with the police and justice system. They were born into cultures where self-destructive behaviors like smoking and alcohol abuse are more tolerated and therefore more common, and where healthy eating is simply not done as often--leading to more lifestyle diseases. They tend to be completely dependent on vehicles and long commutes for their livelihood, further increasing the fragility, expense, and danger of their lives.

Etc.

[MediumTex]

I've thought quite the opposite.  The higher you are on the career/income ladder, the more complicated life gets.  The guy hanging out by the lamp post just outside my office window looks like they are just coasting through life and haven't a care in the world.  Whereas I'm in here trying to juggle impossible deadlines, dealing with backstabbing colleagues, and doing all the little things one must do to continue to meet the expectations that have been building up as a result of past successes.  And, none of which makes me immune to the long list of life events that Mountaineer has provided.  They happen to all of us, no exceptions.

So ironically, I'm saying that a truly "simple" life can be deadly.  People need challenges and complications in their lives.

That seems unlikely to me. People's lives are all hard, just in different ways. Working class people tend to favor work that is dirty, dangerous, and easily taken by automation, outsourcing, and immigrants. As a result, they often face the kind of prolonged unemployment and its attendant loss of self-identity that college-educated professionals rarely do. They get into more fights and live in more violent areas so they have more contact with the police and justice system. They were born into cultures where self-destructive behaviors like smoking and alcohol abuse are more tolerated and therefore more common, and where healthy eating is simply not done as often--leading to more lifestyle diseases. They tend to be completely dependent on vehicles and long commutes for their livelihood, further increasing the fragility, expense, and danger of their lives.

Etc.

It's not just more contact.  The people we are talking about are the feedstock of the prison-industrial complex.

The whole industry depends on the chronic exploitation of these people for its viability.

[MediumTex]

Hint: Cheech and Chong movies are not documentaries.

I always thought of them as potumentaries.

[MWKXJ]

Do you know anyone who uses pot?

I do.  At least a dozen, several of which were close friends when young.  Not without coincidence, those who made something of their lives were those who quit using marijuana.  A couple I know of still use the drug and are now in their early 40s, have personal lives mired in disarray due to mindless neglect, and largely spend their days watching TV while weeds grow in their unkempt yards, "medicating" their lives away.

Source: Direct personal observation.

Do you know anyone who uses pot?

I do. At least a dozen, several of which were close friends when young. Not without coincidence, those who made something of their lives were those who quit using marijuana. A couple I know of still use the drug and are now in their early 40s, have personal lives mired in disarray due to mindless neglect, and largely spend their days watching TV while weeds grow in their unkempt yards, "medicating" their lives away.

Source: Direct personal observation.

i think it depends a lot on the person and how smart, talented, and motivated they are to begin with, plenty of successful people get high and play music or do twisting back flips on their snowboards or bmx bike or any number of other things... it doesn't seem to prevent success or kill all motivation, but it does seem to leave people on a flat trajectory in many areas of life, mastering right brain creative stuff probably isn't one... cultivating emotional maturity, healthy relationships, and financial success in brain demanding fields ....you are probably a bit more likely to top out at the level right where you began smoking...

[Pointedstick]

Anecdotally, I know a couple of people who use pot recreationally and seem fine, but none of the people in my life who I would describe as "high achievers" use it.

[Libertarian666]

Well, all I can say is that my experience is different from both of yours.
I know several people who lack ambition but most of them aren't pot smokers, and I don't see any correlation the other way either.

Also, if you live in a place where it is illegal, maybe some of the high achievers aren't admitting to it...

[Tyler]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse. 

[Libertarian666]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse.

Wrong. Opiate deaths are lower in places where pot is legal, according to the well-known potheads at JAMA:

"in the years after the legalization of medical marijuana, states that did so had a rate that was 25% lower than what we’d expect to see in that state, given past trends and what was going on in the rest of the country."

http://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/08/26/a ... id-deaths/

[MediumTex]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse.

I think that keeping some of those people out of the criminal justice system would likely be a positive for them.  Their lives are hard enough as it is.

[Tyler]

"in the years after the legalization of medical marijuana, states that did so had a rate that was 25% lower than what we’d expect to see in that state, given past trends and what was going on in the rest of the country."

Meh.  Your article is purely about prescription opioid deaths for treating chronic pain.  The OP article cited a 22% large increase in deaths from suicide, alcohol, and drug abuse. Physical pain management is surely only a tiny percentage of the overall trend. 

[Pointedstick]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse.

I think that keeping some of those people out of the criminal justice system would likely be a positive for them.  Their lives are hard enough as it is.

Yeah, this. Entirely aside from whether marijuana is harmful or harmless, throwing people in jail for using it is the height of insanity to me. Anything that reduces the likelihood of being imprisoned for doing nothing bad to anyone else is probably a net win for society.

[Tyler]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse.

I think that keeping some of those people out of the criminal justice system would likely be a positive for them.  Their lives are hard enough as it is.

Totally agree.  I think smoking pot should not be a criminal offense.  But I wager that has a negligible effect on the death rate. 

The larger issue is the motivation to abuse substances to the point that suicide, drug, and alcohol abuse has increased the mortality rate for a certain demographic by 22%.  The legality of having responsible access to alcohol and pot is an entirely different matter.  The problem is depression, not drug laws. 

[Jack Jones]

Legalizing pot would help this without a corresponding downside of any significance.

Pot has plenty of downsides despite popular opinion.

Such as what?

Reduced cognitive function[1], reduced motivation [2], and then you can look forward to anxiety, depression, and insomnia when you try to quit [3] which might be difficult because it's addictive [4].

[1] http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kar ... c0870d.pdf
[2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0304003041
[3] Personal experience
[4] http://mcwell.nd.edu/your-well-being/ph ... -research/

[Libertarian666]

More easy access to pot will have zero positive effect on the OP issue of more people dying due to substance abuse.

I think that keeping some of those people out of the criminal justice system would likely be a positive for them.  Their lives are hard enough as it is.

Totally agree.  I think smoking pot should not be a criminal offense.  But I wager that has a negligible effect on the death rate. 

The larger issue is the motivation to abuse substances to the point that suicide, drug, and alcohol abuse has increased the mortality rate for a certain demographic by 22%. The legality of having responsible access to alcohol and pot is an entirely different matter.  The problem is depression, not drug laws.

So you are saying that having pot legal wouldn't help people reduce their dependence on opiates and other harmful drugs? Sorry, I don't buy that.

[Tyler]

So you are saying that having pot legal wouldn't help people reduce their dependence on opiates and other harmful drugs? Sorry, I don't buy that.

No.  I concede that it would have an effect but that's totally beside the point.  Are you saying that the unusually large increase in the death rate among middle class whites is mostly attributable to a lack of access to pot?  How has access changed for the negative?  And why only for that one group?

Basically, I'm saying pot legalization may be a hot topic but is substantially irrelevant to the OP.

[MediumTex]

The problem is depression, not drug laws.

Wait a second, are you saying that at a time when more antidepressants are being prescribed that at any time in our history, we are seeing higher levels of depression than at any time in our history?

Are you sure that the government didn't create depression?

***

I completely agree with you that depression is at the heart of many of these sad lives, but the question is whether there is a broader cause.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if diet had something to do with it.  Depression may be the mental equivalent of not being able to properly maintain blood sugar levels.

[Tyler]

I totally agree there are many factors that go into it.  The whole culture of solving every problem with a substance -- drugs, alcohol, antidepressants, caffeine, ADHD meds, etc -- is both a symptom and a reinforcing contributor, IMHO (not dealing with problems but masking them).  Diet is an interesting one.  The victimization culture is another.  Lack of religion.  Debt.  Money problems.  Fear mongering.  There are surely more.

[Libertarian666]

So you are saying that having pot legal wouldn't help people reduce their dependence on opiates and other harmful drugs? Sorry, I don't buy that.

No.  I concede that it would have an effect but that's totally beside the point.  Are you saying that the unusually large increase in the death rate among middle class whites is mostly attributable to a lack of access to pot?  How has access changed for the negative?  And why only for that one group?

Basically, I'm saying pot legalization may be a hot topic but is substantially irrelevant to the OP.

No, of course I'm not saying that the increase is largely due to a reduction of access to legal pot, as there is no such reduction as far as I'm aware.

What I am saying is that increasing such access would likely mitigate that issue.

[WiseOne]

So you are saying that having pot legal wouldn't help people reduce their dependence on opiates and other harmful drugs? Sorry, I don't buy that.

No.  I concede that it would have an effect but that's totally beside the point.  Are you saying that the unusually large increase in the death rate among middle class whites is mostly attributable to a lack of access to pot?  How has access changed for the negative?  And why only for that one group?

Basically, I'm saying pot legalization may be a hot topic but is substantially irrelevant to the OP.

No, of course I'm not saying that the increase is largely due to a reduction of access to legal pot, as there is no such reduction as far as I'm aware.

What I am saying is that increasing such access would likely mitigate that issue.

One thing to keep in mind that may narrow the list a bit:  the observed increase in mortality was unique to the U.S.  Poverty, stagnant wages, and even lack of religious beliefs are not limited to the U.S., yet in other countries they don't have this result.

The one thing we do have in the U.S. that sets us apart is the obesity epidemic.  Not that it doesn't happen elsewhere but it's far more advanced here.  Extra weight does bad things to backs, knees, feet and necks, and it's unfortunately all too common for someone to be so obese that their physical activity is limited.

Another possibility is lack of family/social support.  People tend to move around a lot, to a much greater extent than you see in other countries.  It's partly that there's a culture of "go west, young man" here but also that there are few places where it's possible to move 3,000 miles away from home.  Also, it used to be that people would stay in one job forever, but now there is no such thing as company loyalty and there are way more incentives to pick up and move every few years.  That stresses both the families that are moving to places where they have no pre-existing ties, and also those who are left behind.  It's a real issue.

Somebody please invent the transporter!

[Fred]

One thing to keep in mind that may narrow the list a bit:  the observed increase in mortality was unique to the U.S.

It was also unique to Caucasians which is one fact about the study nobody seems to want to take a crack at. 

[Tyler]

Looks like the main argument that death rates increased is actually simply a statistical anomaly due to how the boomers are distributed across the the selected age bin (45-52).

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... asing.html

Nevertheless, the fact that the death rate for other demographics decreased while increasing for middle-aged white women is still interesting and worth exploring.

Another random theory -- women entering the workforce en masse opened them up to the same stresses that have been plaguing men for a while now. 

[WiseOne]

Very interesting post analysis, but it doesn't actually rebut the finding.  If you look at the graphs on page 2, there is still an small increase in the death rate for two 10 year age groups for middle class whites (both men and women) that is quite different from the drop in death rate for the Hispanic and non-white populations.  And as the authors note, death rates for these age groups dropped substantially in other countries.

Don't see how this changes any of the discussion points above, except that I'll have to remember how edge effects can monkey with statistics :-)

[MWKXJ]

It was also unique to Caucasians which is one fact about the study nobody seems to want to take a crack at.

I am unable to speak at large having left high school in the early nineties, but defamation against white Americans was very palpable even then in education.  I recall every facet of Western Civilization being depicted as a litany of crimes against various angelic out-groups.  The blood libel was almost hysterical in its one-sidedness.

The experience left me with reactionary tendencies in the years following high school which only slowly gave way to balance.  The "bright" students, however, seemed eager to lap up the dish before them, happily parroting the textbook abuse against their fathers and nation.  I doubt their "education" helped the peace of mind of theirs, or, preceding generations ...those the study identify as prone to early death.

[MediumTex]

It was also unique to Caucasians which is one fact about the study nobody seems to want to take a crack at.

I am unable to speak at large having left high school in the early nineties, but defamation against white Americans was very palpable even then in education.  I recall every facet of Western Civilization being depicted as a litany of crimes against various angelic out-groups.  The blood libel was almost hysterical in its one-sidedness.

The experience left me with reactionary tendencies in the years following high school which only slowly gave way to balance.  The "bright" students, however, seemed eager to lap up the dish before them, happily parroting the textbook abuse against their fathers and nation.  I doubt their "education" helped the peace of mind of theirs, or, preceding generations ...those the study identify as prone to early death.

This reminded me of the elephant in the room that I have gotten so used to being there that I don't really think about it much anymore.

It's the persistent and pervasive anti-white male messaging that has been saturating our culture for about 20 years now.

It may be that white men with less education have fewer mental tools to insulate themselves from the relentless ridicule that their group has been subjected to in countless small and subtle ways, often for their entire adult lives.

Consider this: At least 50% of all of the television advertising that we see features storylines involving bumbling and hapless white males being rescued by some combination of a capable female (usually the wife) and the product itself.

What may be happening is that these white males at the lower end of the income and education spectrum may be finding their sense of self-worth being eroded through a combination of: (1) reduced earning capacity (due to automation and offshoring) and (2) all of these subtle cultural cues telling them they are stupid and worthless.  As they begin to internalize this new diminished place for themselves in society, it puts them at greater risk for all sorts of hopelessness-related maladies.

Once the men in the group we are discussing have been psychologically and culturally neutered, the women in their lives may find that these men are no longer capable of providing the psychological and emotional support that men in society have traditionally provided to women.  The removal of this support function of men from the lives of women in this low education/low income group creates a sense of chronic uneasiness in women that manifests in the form of hopelessness-related maladies.

The process I am describing above may not be visible at higher levels of income and education because men in these groups are able to insulate themselves from threats to their self-worth because they still hold actual positions of power (they know they're not powerless if they exercise power every day), and they have durable economic opportunities because of their education levels.  Meanwhile, their brothers who are lower on the totem pole must endure the ravages of being on the wrong end of long-term economic trends, while being subjected to reverse racism and a malignant form of feminism that attacks them through their television every time they turn it on.