Gyroscopic Investing

Go to 1:13:15 see the CEO speak at a TEDx event:

https://livestream.com/accounts/50006/e ... mute=false

I can't stand disposable automobiles, or engineered obsolescence itself for that matter.

Paid $1,500 for a 1992 Ford F-150 4x4 with the 4.9L inline 6 and a five speed manual with granny when it had 220,000 miles on the clock.  Now it has 310,000 miles and the motor's still never been rebuilt.  The inline 300 first appeared in 1965 and was made until 1996. It's a proven, high torque, low-RPM, tractor-like engine (occasionally repurposed for industrial equipment) with the later incarnations fuel injected.  Mileage is decent for a full sized truck with A/T tires at around 19 on the highway, 15 stop and go.  The truck tows a 5000lb trailer with no problem, is cheap to fix, and easy to work on.  It's a good fit out here in AZ, too, as there's still wide open spaces, by the grace of God.

Feel sorry for people who are forced by their lifestyles into $20,000 or $30,000+ lease-to-own plastic rattletraps.  Probably the same people who pay $600,000+ for a three bedroom house without a yard, let alone a shade tree that would allow them to work on their vehicles and save themselves some money.  Hell, for that matter, probably the same people who spend most of their lives sitting stationary in traffic, commuting for hours from their dwellings to their cubicles and back again, wondering where their lives went.  At what point do you work for the car rather than the car working for you?

MWKXJ wrote: I can't stand disposable automobiles, or engineered obsolescence itself for that matter.

You must be having a bad couple of decades, then. There's a thread on reddit dot com asking people to list what products and brands no longer live up to their name anymore. Granted, must of the 5000 comments are Gibson guitars and Craftsman tools over and over again. But, if you read the list for long enough, it appears that it's getting harder and harder to find things that last.

Some have come to the conclusion that this is partly the customers' fault, because we seek out what's cheap. One person said that cars used to be designed by the engineering department and that now they're designed by the financial department.

I know very little about automobiles and bought a 2007 VW Jetta many years ago, now having realized that it is a far from perfect vehicle for my uses (shoulda at least gotten a hatchback, and preferably one with better mileage). However required maintenance has been practically nonexistent and it still hums along just fine despite having been in a serious collision that required a whole front-half rebuild (whatever you call it) back in 2009. Hardly a disposable vehicle. I now know VWs have a reputation for being finicky and expensive to repair but ours has been pretty tank-like for a family sedan. Total regular monthly cost of ownership is about $65 (insurance, taxes, gas, amortized registration costs). Maintenance and expected replacement costs  don't even push it above $100. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. And I don't like cars.

I've been using synthetic oil for 19 years on a 1991 Honda Accord with excellent results.  The car will turn 300,000 miles next month. 

The mechanic who did the car's first valve adjustment said the engine looked like it had 50,000 miles on it.

Pointedstick wrote: I know very little about automobiles and bought a 2007 VW Jetta many years ago, now having realized that it is a far from perfect vehicle for my uses (shoulda at least gotten a hatchback, and preferably one with better mileage). However required maintenance has been practically nonexistent and it still hums along just fine despite having been in a serious collision that required a whole front-half rebuild (whatever you call it) back in 2009. Hardly a disposable vehicle. I now know VWs have a reputation for being finicky and expensive to repair but ours has been pretty tank-like for a family sedan. Total regular monthly cost of ownership is about $65 (insurance, taxes, gas, amortized registration costs). Maintenance and expected replacement costs  don't even push it above $100. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. And I don't like cars.

Get a Subaru Outback next time!  Yep.  That's exactly what you need. 

Quality started to go downhill in 1994 when China pegged the yuan to the USD and offshoring commenced.  Walmart is probably the biggest offender because they require separate, lowest quality product lines.

Nah, Subarus are super overpriced. The next vehicle will probably be an old minivan, primarily for the cargo capacity. It's annoying not being able to easily transport large furniture and 4x8 sheet good in the Jetta.

Pointedstick wrote: Nah, Subarus are super overpriced. The next vehicle will probably be an old minivan, primarily for the cargo capacity. It's annoying not being able to easily transport large furniture and 4x8 sheet good in the Jetta.

OMG... isn't that a Soccer Mom Van?!!

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: Nah, Subarus are super overpriced. The next vehicle will probably be an old minivan, primarily for the cargo capacity. It's annoying not being able to easily transport large furniture and 4x8 sheet good in the Jetta.

OMG... isn't that a Soccer Mom Van?!!

I will probably think of it as my construction supplies and furniture moving van.

So does anyone think Elio is worth the $600 minimum investment or is it just too nerdy and stupid to succeed?  I'm on the fence.

Nah man. Let an early adopter figure that shit out. Buy one if it isn't stupid. I know you're in California and all, but restrain yourself.

Desert wrote:

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: Nah, Subarus are super overpriced. The next vehicle will probably be an old minivan, primarily for the cargo capacity. It's annoying not being able to easily transport large furniture and 4x8 sheet good in the Jetta.

OMG... isn't that a Soccer Mom Van?!!

PS is remarkably well insulated from our culture's demand for conspicuous consumption.  It's refreshing to see. 

PS, have you thought about a cheap pickup instead of the van?

Yes, as I expect it would last longer due to the greater mechanical durability. However a pickup truck of any sort is a far less efficient vehicle for the sort of hybrid passenger/cargo needs that I occasionally have. The beauty of a minivan is that it can be internally reconfigured for either use; a pickup truck is stuck with one or the other. If you optimize it for passengers, You can carry 5, maybe 6, but you get a tiny bed not well suited for carrying large sheet goods. If you optimize it for cargo by getting an 8 foot bed, you sacrifice passenger capacity or else wind up with a monster of a vehicle. Do they even make long-bed-crew-cab trucks? On top of that, the trucks get worse gas mileage and retain their value better, translating to greater cost on the used market. Minivans seem to depreciate ridiculously fast. Used models only 10 years old can be had for like $3k where I live.

I also occasionally toy with just getting a nice super-efficient hatchback and towing the sheet goods on a little trailer. Carrying 5 at 40 MPG or better, with the option of towing a little bitty trailer for construction supplies, would be just about ideal, I think. Like an '05 Yaris or something.

Yes, only one car. I actually hate motor vehicles am constantly plotting ways to get rid of it entirely, and just rent the neighbor's truck when I need to haul construction materials. It's the sort of thing where if we fell on hard times, there is a 100% chance we could do it successfully and walk or bike nearly everywhere, but it's harder to justify considering how times are the opposite right now and the total monthly cost of ownership is so low ($100-ish including amortized repair and replacement costs for a cheaper vehicle). $100/mo = $30k lifetime/ERE cost to offset it forever which I can save in only a few months. A few months of work in exchange for lifetime free motor vehicle usage seems like a pretty decent deal to me.

Kriegsspiel wrote: Nah man. Let an early adopter figure that shit out. Buy one if it isn't stupid. I know you're in California and all, but restrain yourself.

I'm was referring to investing in the company not putting down a deposit on these nerdy, geek chic cars.  I'm just wondering if anyone thinks it has any merit or not.  I don't want my personal prejudices to get in the way of what could be a great investment opportunity.  You don't get too many chances to invest in the beginning of something new like this.

They're now open for investment and I'm taking a pass on it.  The odds against them plus the relatively high minimum just doesn't give me a boner.