Gyroscopic Investing

mathjak107 wrote: at this point it is silly to change things so for the  once a week or so we go out cash is fine .  i am not thrilled with using cards in restaurants anyway . i do not like someone walking away with the card  out of sight . i have enough fraud issues from time time without introducing a credit card i can't watch being processed .

I know we're way off the topic of Mint and Pers'Cap, but it's interesting that you brought that up. I haven't been to Europe in a while, but my friend recently mentioned that when you use a chip card in a restaurant, they do it in front of you, at your table, w/ a portable device. I like that.

Yes! But that is not even debatable.

Good news.  I unexpectedly received the FIA card today with a $12,000 line of credit.  Sweet Mother Mary of Jesus!

the amex ?  they are looking in to dropping amex  now .  wed is my birthday if you want to get a little gift with it  ha ha ha

the last few days my fia cards will not update in fidelity's full view . not sure what that is about .

mathjak107 wrote: the amex ?  they are looking in to dropping amex  now .  wed is my birthday if you want to get a little gift with it  ha ha ha

the last few days my fia cards will not update in fidelity's full view . not sure what that is about .

Oh thats right!  I remember reading a news story about that a few weeks ago.  Oh well.  Will they just keep existing cardholders or will they force everyone to a new card?

Not sure, but I would be happy to see them  swap out our cards with actual visa or master cards since so many places do not accept Amex cards.

Bank of America cards are good for free admission at many museums around the country the first weekend of every month check out museums on us.

mathjak107 wrote: Not sure, but I would be happy to see them  swap out our cards with actual visa or master cards since so many places do not accept Amex cards.

Bank of America cards are good for free admission at many museums around the country the first weekend of every month check out museums on us.

But if it's no longer Amex, will we still get the 2% cash back that makes it all worthwhile, the only reason to have this godforsaken card in the first place? I may as well jettison everything but Capital One Quicksilver Visa. 1.5% back, accepted everywhere, none of Amex's security hassles.

Yeah that Citi card seems to be popular with the bogleheads. Will have to check it out.

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TennPaGa wrote: If the universe had a sense of humor, the forum would soon get a new member who would make 10-20 posts a day about how much money you are leaving on the table by not using reward cards.

Right, but what about the interest payments acting as an anchor pulling down your reward returns.

Jack Jones wrote:

TennPaGa wrote: If the universe had a sense of humor, the forum would soon get a new member who would make 10-20 posts a day about how much money you are leaving on the table by not using reward cards.

Right, but what about the interest payments acting as an anchor pulling down your reward returns.

Interest payments? What are those?

Pointedstick wrote:

Jack Jones wrote: Right, but what about the interest payments acting as an anchor pulling down your reward returns.

Interest payments? What are those?

I never heard of them either. Do tell!

Jack Jones wrote: Right, but what about the interest payments acting as an anchor pulling down your reward returns.

Joke fail. Does this help:

mathjak107 wrote: if returns are weak in all asset classes the pp loses as well . they need  higher gains to overcome that negative weight before moving forward on anything .

mathjak107 wrote: except all our parts are powerful enough to be the lead horse themselves . so you need far more in gains in something to move forward .  you are counting on  more than below average returns happening .

a mix of stocks and intermediate term nd short term bonds can do okay with below average returns , since the bonds have so little  drag.

mathjak107 wrote: the pp  can not succeed if returns are below average . it depends on strong  trends to over come the steep drops opposing assets have .  no strong trends an the pp is dead in the water if not enouh assets re able to pull in the same direction . .

mathjak107 wrote: a 50/50 mix  can produce a nice return with only 5-6% equity returns and 3% interest on bonds , the pp likely will not be able to lift it's own weight with those returns if they happen . . ,.  in either case we are both betting on something being in place that my not happen and that is my point .

just because you put equal money in to assets does not man hy have an equal chance of playing out and if they don't you need a lot more of a trend  to compensate .  you have no idea if that will happen

so it is great you own all 4 asst classes but if conditions do not allow it you have no lead horse .  think about that fact . .

mathjak107 wrote: that is why i say while you think you are not betting on outcomes you certainly are . you need to count on much stronger gains in assets in order to get to the same level .  i may be betting on a narrow band of assets but i am betting less on how much i need in gains to move forward . the pp bets on a wider band of assets that are more volatile except for cash and needs to count on higher gains to move forward for the mot part .

mathjak107 wrote: depends . if the assets pull harder in opposite directions then it could be true with fewer assets . but there is no comparison to equity's and short and intermediate term bonds to stocks , gold and long term treasury's and the inertia you need to overcome to  go forward .

a down day for bonds with intermediate treshurys can have 3x less effect then a down day with a total bond fund .  hense stocks n long term treasury's need a lot more in gains on stocks to move  forward .

Oh my god, I just realized all of those quotes were from the same day!

Now that is funny! 

dualstow wrote: Now that is funny! 

I think we can call it the Anchor Principle:

Assets other than stocks only serve as an anchor, dragging down the returns of stocks.

Jack Jones wrote: I think we can call it the Anchor Principle:

Assets other than stocks only serve as an anchor, dragging down the returns of stocks.

What happens when the return of stocks drag down themselves?

Does this seem right to anyone?

Bringing this back on topic...I tried going whole hog with Personal Capital for about 3 months. Issues I had:

- If a transaction was reversed from my bank account, sometimes it would persist in Personal Capital. This made it difficult to trust the monthly spending figures.

- There would be random anomalies in the value of my accounts that would blow up the scale of the charts:



I opened tickets for these issues, but I wasn't really happy with the support I got (you get what you pay for!). I'm tracking things in GnuCash now.

Sorry for maintaining the off-trackness.

MachineGhost wrote: Does this seem right to anyone?

http://i.imgur.com/YntG2mf.png

Actually, no it doesn't.  I remember that cash back is only 1% instead of 2% if you take the credit in some form other than a deposit to a Fidelity cash account. The rest of the text in your image is news to me! Maybe I need to reread it.
Also, nothing about that here - http://www.rewardscreditcards.org/fidel ... n-express/

dualstow wrote: Sorry for maintaining the off-trackness.

MachineGhost wrote: Does this seem right to anyone?

http://i.imgur.com/YntG2mf.png

Actually, no it doesn't.  I remember that cash back is only 1% instead of 2% if you take the credit in some form other than a deposit to a Fidelity cash account. The rest of the text in your image is news to me! Maybe I need to reread it.
Also, nothing about that here - http://www.rewardscreditcards.org/fidel ... n-express/

Hmm, maybe its just outdated text on the crappy FIA website which looks like its from the 90's.  Everything looks setup automatically so I don't actually need to do anything.  But can anyone confirm they're actually getting a 2% rebate deposited automagically despite what the text says?

Another red flag seems to be in dispute resolution.  A separate page included with the card indicates that disputes after a good faith effort with the merchant are only valid for purchases in your state or 100 miles of your mailing address.  Nothing about out of state and/or online orders.

Also, if only those with excellent credit can apply for and get the card, who the heck is paying finance charges so that that FIA can afford to pay a 2% rebate?

Since American Express has a reputation of being assholish, I'm not eager to jump head first into charging with reckless abandon with doubts like these.

MachineGhost wrote: Also, if only those with excellent credit can apply for and get the card, who the heck is paying finance charges so that that FIA can afford to pay a 2% rebate?

Merchants, I guess. If so, that would explain why so many places won't accept it, and why Amex holders always have a non-Amex backup card.

dualstow wrote: Sorry for maintaining the off-trackness.

MachineGhost wrote: Does this seem right to anyone?

http://i.imgur.com/YntG2mf.png

Actually, no it doesn't.  I remember that cash back is only 1% instead of 2% if you take the credit in some form other than a deposit to a Fidelity cash account. The rest of the text in your image is news to me! Maybe I need to reread it.
Also, nothing about that here - http://www.rewardscreditcards.org/fidel ... n-express/

just put it in a money market like i do and it is 2%  back . it is about 1.50% if you take gift cards  but no reason to . just spend it right from the money market . it is my main card that i use  unless they do  not take amex .

the sheet pertaining to disputes is standard credit card lingo for them all  you just have not noticed it but it is part of the fair billing laws . . . you only have it partially correct , you can still dispute under billing errors for 60 days but after that you lose  the right for claims and defenses  .

Purchase protection -- with catches
Credit card purchases are protected under the Fair Credit Billing Act. This law gives the consumer the right to withhold payment on poor-quality or damaged merchandise purchased with a credit card.
Under the law, you do need to make a real effort to resolve the dispute with the merchant before you can ask your issuer to stop a credit card payment. There are a few other catches as well.

The sale must be for more than $50 and have taken place in your home state or within 100 miles of your home address. Few issuers enforce the $50 or 100-mile rule on purchases, but all are free to do so.

So there's a chance that you'll be able to dispute credit card charges on shoddy merchandise purchased outside your home state, over the Internet, by mail order or phone order.

"Many credit card companies will let you dispute that," says Jeanne M. Hogarth, senior analyst of consumer policies at the Federal Reserve Board. "Technically, they don't have to."



Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit- ... z3nsDoEeIt
Follow us: @Bankrate on Twitter | Bankrate on Facebook

mathjak107 wrote: just put it in a money market like i do and it is 2%  back . it is about 1.50% if you take gift cards  but no reason to . just spend it right from the money market . it is my main card that i use  unless they do  not take amex .

Yup. I've had the card for years and have got my wife used to the idea of using her copy before trying the visa. Just got another reward deposit this week. The only thing I do differently from you, mj, is that I have not spent from the account. I don't even know how to, lol. Maybe I should look around for checkbooks or a page on transfers someday. Right now it's too small.

Interesting, mathjack.  Can you dispute transactions online at FIA like you can with other credit card companies?  I didn't see any provision to do so, but I don't have any transactions yet.

YEP.  I already have through the years . a pleasure to deal with .

fia card services have nothing to do with fidelity . they are actually bank of America owned

Going slightly off topic back to the original topic of the thread...

Does anybody use Credit Karma?  They provide you with a Vantage score and credit info from 2 of the 3 bureaus, plus email alerts whenever there's a change to your credit.  I've been using that for quite some time to monitor credit, with the idea that I'd use Mint to monitor existing accounts.  However, Credit Karma can now do that.

The interface isn't the world's most sophisticated, but it's straightforward and (unlike Mint) it works, and it does the job for me.

I thought about subscription services that both monitor credit & accounts and also stem the flow of junk mail, but it seems silly to pay a monthly fee for something that's so easy to get for free.