Gyroscopic Investing

My research has revealed several naturally iron chelating foods: blue/purple colored berries, turmeric, and green tea. I'm sure there are more. Maybe the tea thing can help explain the extraordinary longevity of the Japanese.

MachineGhost wrote: P.S. That video featuring Dr. Lustig about the evils of fructose was full of lies, or should I say very selective evidence to support his hypothesis?  Here's the other side of the story:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/10/42

Thanks for the pointer.  It's a typical and thoughtful review article.  It doesn't say that Lustig's views are "full of lies", in fact it supports what he says on several points.  The discussion about results of dietary population cohort studies basically says the data can be hard to interpret and one must be cautious about it.  Very true, not just for studies about fructose/sucrose but other factors too, like iron.  And Lustig said much the same thing - don't remember if it was in the videos though, because I also read some of his journal articles.

Population studies imho are way too squirrelly to draw real information from.  Let's say I were to pick one thing e.g. risk of heart disease, and go through all the claims that substance A reduces risk by X%, substance B reduces it by Y%, etc.  If you add up all those risk reductions and apply every bit of advice, your risk would theoretically be less than zero which is obviously absurd.  If you live long enough, chances are high that you'll have heart disease to some extent no matter what you do.  Meanwhile, following all those pieces of advice would seriously hinder your ability to just enjoy life. 

Pointedstick wrote: My research has revealed several naturally iron chelating foods: blue/purple colored berries, turmeric, and green tea. I'm sure there are more. Maybe the tea thing can help explain the extraordinary longevity of the Japanese.

Green tea is really good for chelating iron out of the brain, apparently.  But I do not think you'd get the same effect from taking a EGCG green tea extract.  I betcha its the tannins that do the chelating.

WiseOne wrote: Population studies imho are way too squirrelly to draw real information from.  Let's say I were to pick one thing e.g. risk of heart disease, and go through all the claims that substance A reduces risk by X%, substance B reduces it by Y%, etc.  If you add up all those risk reductions and apply every bit of advice, your risk would theoretically be less than zero which is obviously absurd.  If you live long enough, chances are high that you'll have heart disease to some extent no matter what you do.  Meanwhile, following all those pieces of advice would seriously hinder your ability to just enjoy life.

Whoops, I think I posted the wrong link pointing out Dr. Lustig's lies in the video, but the one I did was excellent and impartial anyway.  Off the top of my head, Dr. Lustig lies about there being a huge increase in carb consumption between 1970 and recently (the actual data does not support it, surprisingly).  He also only focuses on just children and not adults (though, I took that to mean he was trying to expose the obesity problem in children).  A few other issues not supported by the data.  It seems he only chose selective evidence to support his hypothesis in his video.

There is definitely a cost to forestalling future health problems just as there is a cost with forestalling current consumption by saving in the present.  Given human nature and widespread ignorance, is it surprising the vast majority of people can't do either one very good at all?  How are we supposed to feel about those people when you have superior knowledge?

BTW, the link between fructose and obesity may be that fructose enhances iron absorption:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0083031

I'm not replacing my dextrose with fructose anytime soon, but it pays not to buy into any dogma hook, line and sinker.  We saw that with the cholesterol lipid hypothesis and look what happened!  Heck, I would just about blow my socks off if there was a link of iron being the primary mechanism that oxidizes LDL.  That would be asking for too much.

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: My research has revealed several naturally iron chelating foods: blue/purple colored berries, turmeric, and green tea. I'm sure there are more. Maybe the tea thing can help explain the extraordinary longevity of the Japanese.

Green tea is really good for chelating iron out of the brain, apparently.  But I do not think you'd get the same effect from taking a EGCG green tea extract.  I betcha its the tannins that do the chelating.

I do drink actual green tea.

MachineGhost wrote: I would just about blow my socks off if there was a link of iron being the primary mechanism that oxidizes LDL.  That would be asking for too much.

Probably not primary

"patients with hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease, genetic disorders that increase levels of iron and copper in blood and tissue Bothwell et al. 1979 and Danks 1989, are not at increased risk for atherosclerosis."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3801001013

Benko wrote:

MachineGhost wrote: I would just about blow my socks off if there was a link of iron being the primary mechanism that oxidizes LDL.  That would be asking for too much.

Probably not primary

"patients with hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease, genetic disorders that increase levels of iron and copper in blood and tissue Bothwell et al. 1979 and Danks 1989, are not at increased risk for atherosclerosis."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3801001013

Strange, but this is the second time in two days I've heard of Wilson's disease.  I'd never heard of it (that I remember) before yesterday.

... Mountaineer

Benko wrote: "patients with hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease, genetic disorders that increase levels of iron and copper in blood and tissue Bothwell et al. 1979 and Danks 1989, are not at increased risk for atherosclerosis."

Doesn't copper chelate iron though?  It's no good having an iron genetic defect if you don't have elevated ferritin because of Wilson's.

Pointedstick wrote:

Benko wrote: Hemochromatosis.

Kresser is one smart (and generally openminded) dude.  I'd go back and listen to the exact wording of what he actually said.  In men there is no easy way for the body to get rid of iron (short of donating blood).

I thought people are constantly excreting iron through pee and sweat? Of course, menstruating women have that additional advantage here.

I always understood that one of the reasons that women lived longer than men was because they dropped all of that iron with their periods every month.

Maybe men should get in the habit of donating blood every time their wives/girlfriends have their periods.

MediumTex wrote:

Pointedstick wrote:

Benko wrote: Hemochromatosis.

Kresser is one smart (and generally openminded) dude.  I'd go back and listen to the exact wording of what he actually said.  In men there is no easy way for the body to get rid of iron (short of donating blood).

I thought people are constantly excreting iron through pee and sweat? Of course, menstruating women have that additional advantage here.

I always understood that one of the reasons that women lived longer than men was because they dropped all of that iron with their periods every month.

Maybe men should get in the habit of donating blood every time their wives/girlfriends have their periods.

I feel like I'm dropping a lot of my blood on the religion thread - no wonder I don't worry about cooking in a cast iron skillet.  Do you "feel me" on that? 

... Mountaineer

Mountaineer wrote:

MediumTex wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: I thought people are constantly excreting iron through pee and sweat? Of course, menstruating women have that additional advantage here.

I always understood that one of the reasons that women lived longer than men was because they dropped all of that iron with their periods every month.

Maybe men should get in the habit of donating blood every time their wives/girlfriends have their periods.

I feel like I'm dropping a lot of my blood on the religion thread - no wonder I don't worry about cooking in a cast iron skillet.  Do you "feel me" on that? 

... Mountaineer

Heh heh

Here's the tour de force:

Iron, Food Enrichment and The Theory of Everything
http://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/enrich ... thing.html

Conclusion from the Iron-Statin Nexus paper:

[quote=http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ral ... 885ce5.pdf]Body iron (ferritin) levels, relatively low during childhood and the premenopausal years, rise with aging as dietary intake exceeds loss.

Humans have no physiologic mechanism for sensing and excreting excess iron.

Increased body iron stores occurring with unnecessary ingestion of iron supplements may be associated with increased mortality.

Elevated iron stores can be prevented by dietary means or corrected by blood removal or iron chelation.

Because iron homeostasis is regulated primarily at the level of dietary intake, benefits of reduced iron burden could be achievable by diet as occurs in the living Mediterranean population, which exhibits low levels of ferritin, LDL cholesterol, and markers of lipid oxidation and reduced cardiovascular morbidity and mortality.

Efforts to implement a Mediterranean-style diet in the United States may be less than fully successful because of population-wide exposure to unphysiologic iron supplements ingested involuntarily. Confirrmation of the efficacy of iron reduction might point the way to management of CVD using appropriate dietary measures. An analysis of public policies that affect chronic nutritional iron overdosing is beyond the scope of our study; however, the Food and Drug Administration classification of iron supplements as “generally regarded as safe” may, in the absence of iron deficiency, be open to question.

The finding of a statin---iron nexus suggests the possibility of a low-cost and safe alternative to “treat-all” statin therapy. Past confusion from negative epidemiological studies lacking appropriate comparator populations could be resolved by prospective trials of iron reduction in at-risk populations. Favorable outcomes might be attained without a need for universal drug treatment to achieve a low risk range for ferritin levels approximating 75 nanograms per milliliter or lower.[/quote]

The average ferritin level of the participants was 126.65 ng/dl and average age 67, male.  Children and premenopausal women are 25-50 ng/dl.  Statin users averaged 117.53 ng/dl.

It seems like a no-brainer to reduce your ferritin levels considering how easy it is.

2. Donate blood.  Can't do that


You can also have a "therapeutic phlebotomy" if you cannot donate blood. It usually requires a doctor's order / Rx.

flagator wrote:

2. Donate blood.  Can't do that


You can also have a "therapeutic phlebotomy" if you cannot donate blood. It usually requires a doctor's order / Rx.

Or a sharp blade

dragoncar wrote:

flagator wrote:

2. Donate blood.  Can't do that


You can also have a "therapeutic phlebotomy" if you cannot donate blood. It usually requires a doctor's order / Rx.

Or a sharp blade

Vampires, another solution!  Even def leppard says "Love Bites". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPU9az11si0

... Mountaineer

dualstow wrote: I would also like to know that in light of this new evidence, does Greg have to change his avatar?

Perhaps I will change to Titanium Man. Titanium is pretty inert in the body, at least that is true for medical implants and such hah.

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote:

dualstow wrote: I would also like to know that in light of this new evidence, does Greg have to change his avatar?

Perhaps I will change to Titanium Man. Titanium is pretty inert in the body, at least that is true for medical implants and such hah.

Only, and only if, you supplement the titanium with St. John's Word (yes, I meant that), purple nightshade, and garlic.  Otherwise, you will fall to the evils of gluten free pizza dough and over accumulation of gold. 

... Mountaineer

Mountaineer wrote:
Only, and only if, you supplement the titanium with St. John's Word (yes, I meant that), purple nightshade, and garlic.  Otherwise, you will fall to the evils of gluten free pizza dough and over accumulation of gold. 

... Mountaineer

I have already succumb to gluten free pizza dough and it is quite tasty. My wife has a gluten sensitivity which opened me up to a bunch of new and delightful food choices.

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote:

Mountaineer wrote:
Only, and only if, you supplement the titanium with St. John's Word (yes, I meant that), purple nightshade, and garlic.  Otherwise, you will fall to the evils of gluten free pizza dough and over accumulation of gold. 

... Mountaineer

I have already succumb to gluten free pizza dough and it is quite tasty. My wife has a gluten sensitivity which opened me up to a bunch of new and delightful food choices.

And here I thought you might be a gluten glutton!  My apologies.  On a serious note, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about gluten free food.  I hope your wife's condition is manageable and not overly annoying. 

... Mountaineer

Pointedstick wrote:

MachineGhost wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: My research has revealed several naturally iron chelating foods: blue/purple colored berries, turmeric, and green tea. I'm sure there are more. Maybe the tea thing can help explain the extraordinary longevity of the Japanese.

Green tea is really good for chelating iron out of the brain, apparently.  But I do not think you'd get the same effect from taking a EGCG green tea extract.  I betcha its the tannins that do the chelating.

I do drink actual green tea.

Then you probably are getting too much fluoride  .....

doodle wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: I do drink actual green tea.

Then you probably are getting too much fluoride  .....

Can't win, can you? But then again I get plenty of magnesium and calcium, which inhibit fluoride absorption, so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine.

Mountaineer wrote:

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote:

Mountaineer wrote:
Only, and only if, you supplement the titanium with St. John's Word (yes, I meant that), purple nightshade, and garlic.  Otherwise, you will fall to the evils of gluten free pizza dough and over accumulation of gold. 

... Mountaineer

I have already succumb to gluten free pizza dough and it is quite tasty. My wife has a gluten sensitivity which opened me up to a bunch of new and delightful food choices.

And here I thought you might be a gluten glutton!  My apologies.  On a serious note, I have absolutely nothing bad to say about gluten free food.  I hope your wife's condition is manageable and not overly annoying. 

... Mountaineer

Thanks for the apologies but not necessary. Condition is certainly manageable. The only pain is when you're on vacation and trying to find restaurants to eat at. Luckily, there are a few websites online that cater towards telling people where to go when you have various allergies/sensitivities.

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote: Thanks for the apologies but not necessary. Condition is certainly manageable. The only pain is when you're on vacation and trying to find restaurants to eat at. Luckily, there are a few websites online that cater towards telling people where to go when you have various allergies/sensitivities.

Got links?

MachineGhost wrote:

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote: Thanks for the apologies but not necessary. Condition is certainly manageable. The only pain is when you're on vacation and trying to find restaurants to eat at. Luckily, there are a few websites online that cater towards telling people where to go when you have various allergies/sensitivities.

Got links?

I like this one for my wife:

http://www.findmeglutenfree.com/search? ... =-117.1959 <-- this is for San Diego, I'm going with my wife soon. You then get a good idea of what is there and then start narrowing down which websites/places you want to call to confirm.