Gyroscopic Investing

Austen Heller wrote:

bedraggled wrote: What is the easy path to hydroponic growing? [?]

There is a type of hydroponics especially suited to the home grower, called Bucket Hydroponics or the Kratky Method.  Start your seedlings in rockwool cubes, then suspend the plants above a solution of liquid fertilizer.  No water pumps, no aeration needed.  The roots grow down into the solution, and eventually use it all up.  As long as you provide more hydroponic solution than the plant can use in its lifetime, there is no ongoing maintenance during the growing period.  Most small plants (like lettuce) only need a gallon of fluid or less.  If you have a patio, larger plants (like tomatoes and cucumbers) can be grown outside in larger containers (like trash buckets).

Check out this website for more details:
www.buckethydroponics.com

Also http://www.growingpower.org/.

For what it's worth, it appears that aquaponic vegetables don't taste fishy nor watery.  Vegetables are nature's way of recycling poop, after all.

Thanks for the bucket hydroponics link!  Less complicated & expensive = definitely worth looking into, particularly if I decide I'd rather not saddle myself with an aquarium.

The whole idea of indoor gardening is quite attractive....I have enough indoor space now to consider it, and electricity is a fixed cost as it's included in coop maintenance.  The reason for not wanting to do traditional soil gardening is mainly because bugs are a constant issue, but also because indoor pots dry out very quickly, so any attempt at growing veggies only lasts until the next out of town conference.

Kriegsspiel wrote: Also http://www.growingpower.org/.

From their aquaponics page:

We fill our growing pots with a mixture of coir and compost. The coir is made from discarded coconut husks and helps wick water to the plant’s root system. The compost provides extra nutrients to grow an abundance of crops within the system. Traditional hydroponic growing, or growing without soil, relies on fish waste alone to fertilize the crops. The problem is, you can only grow crops with lower nutritional needs such as basil. For example, in most traditional hydroponic systems, Boron is found in very low quantities. Boron is essential for flower development in crops – tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers – which means that production for these kinds of crops is very low in hydroponic systems. At Growing Power, we solved this problem by adding nutrient rich compost to the pots in our system. Still have doubts? Come by the farm and try one of our tomatoes grown in our aquaponics system. Satisfaction is guaranteed.

So it sounds like you can combine the two approaches.  I'm curious how they get the water from the sub-irrigation side back to the fish.

MachineGhost wrote:

Kriegsspiel wrote: Also http://www.growingpower.org/.

From their aquaponics page:

We fill our growing pots with a mixture of coir and compost. The coir is made from discarded coconut husks and helps wick water to the plant’s root system. The compost provides extra nutrients to grow an abundance of crops within the system. Traditional hydroponic growing, or growing without soil, relies on fish waste alone to fertilize the crops. The problem is, you can only grow crops with lower nutritional needs such as basil. For example, in most traditional hydroponic systems, Boron is found in very low quantities. Boron is essential for flower development in crops – tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers – which means that production for these kinds of crops is very low in hydroponic systems. At Growing Power, we solved this problem by adding nutrient rich compost to the pots in our system. Still have doubts? Come by the farm and try one of our tomatoes grown in our aquaponics system. Satisfaction is guaranteed.

So it sounds like you can combine the two approaches.  I'm curious how they get the water from the sub-irrigation side back to the fish.

I believe they use a pump one time to get it back to the top, then gravity for the rest.

Kriegsspiel wrote: I believe they use a pump one time to get it back to the top, then gravity for the rest.

I was picturing it side by side.  They really have the plants on the bottom?  Since they're using gravity to draw the fish water through gravel which contains some microbiota to convert the fish poop, I was assuming the sub-irrigation chamber was to the side of the fish chamber with a connecting tunnel below the gravel.

Ahh, I think I saw the one-pump thing here.

Using greenhouses and a closed eco-system technology known as Aquaponics, Will Allen has taken urban farming to new extremes. In fact, a packed greenhouse produces a crop value of $5 square foot! ($200,000 per acre). So how is he doing this?

* Maintaining 3 acres of land in green houses
* Producing 10,000 fish
* Using 300 to 500 yards of worm compost
* Utilizing vertical space
* Using 1 simple aquaponic pump
* Food is grown all year by using heat from the compost piles

I can't remember if Will Allen mentions it in one of the videos on youtube.

Actually, this video from Growing Power explains the flow.

Coffee grounds -- will they perk up plants?

https://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/upl ... rounds.pdf

Gardeners in New Mexico swear by coffee grounds. Apparently they're great for our alkaline soil. Of course you'll need a lot of them to make much of a difference.

I've come up with what I call the MachineGhost Kill 'Em All Bug Zapper Cocktail. Since it costs a fortune on order of $399 per quart for a comprehensive organic pesticide like pyrethine (and without fungicides or miticides which may negatively affect the soil microbiota), I optimized the available options to get the most coverage at the lowest cost. The cocktail consists of:

Monterey Garden Insect Spray: http://www.amazon.com/Monterey-Garden-I ... 002BP12LI/
Safer Yard & Garden Insect Killer: http://www.amazon.com/Safer-5105-Garden ... 000BWY2Z6/
Boric Acid: http://www.amazon.com/PestGuard-Zap---R ... 0016J1MZG/

...to terminate:



...at 88% less cost.

Pests are one of the main reasons I prefer to grow most of my leafy green crops indoors using bucket hydroponics. Lettuce, kale, basil, herbs, I grow them all inside, so they are perfectly clean. Of course I can't grow a lot, since I am limited to the space covered by my grow light. But it sure is nice to harvest my greens and eat them without any bugs...I don't even need to wash them.

I do grow a few things outside, such as tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers. The bugs can be a problem, I am currently dealing with inchworms, mites, leaf miners, etc. Ideally, I would like to erect a small greenhouse to help keep the bugs away.

I got some hydroponically grown tomatoes once - they looked great, but had very little taste/flavor.

Do the greens taste good?

jafs wrote:Do the greens taste good?

Most of them taste great. My favorite flavorful greens are arugula, mustard, orach, and swiss chard. Lettuce is less flavorful, I have been switching to a variety of Endive known as 'Perlita' as a substitute for lettuce, it grows better and has more flavor. Herbs such as basil and cilantro also have lots of flavor.

Austen Heller wrote:Herbs such as basil and cilantro also have lots of flavor.

Man, my cilantro (not grown hydroponically) bolted pretty much right out of the gate here in the PacNW. Perhaps user error, but c'mon, it's Seattle....it doesn't get *that* hot.

My lettuce appears to be feeding some population of insects, but otherwise pests aren't proving to be much of an issue this year (there was a slug gnawing away on the leafy top of one of my carrots, but he was easy to re-home).

Anyone have suggestions for controlling pests besides...pesticides? Any guide for pairing of plants to get helpful insects?

drumminj wrote:Man, my cilantro (not grown hydroponically) bolted pretty much right out of the gate here in the PacNW. Perhaps user error, but c'mon, it's Seattle....it doesn't get *that* hot.

Anyone have suggestions for controlling pests besides...pesticides? Any guide for pairing of plants to get helpful insects?

Seattle, huh? Have you read The Really Big One thread?

But you need to get what's called "slow bolt" cilantro so you can get more out of it before it flowers. I picked up a packet from Seeds of Change at Home Depot: http://www.seedsofchange.com/quickfacts ... 848&cat=82

The MachineGhost Kill 'Em All Bug Zapper Cocktail is not technically a pesticide, even though you spray it. It's a bacteria, flower extract and mineral combo. Other than maybe the boric acid (which is a put on the ground thing not a spray), its safe for mammals unlike pesticides.

A garlic or copper foil barrier will deal with banana slugs: https://www.groworganic.com/garlic-barr ... quart.html
There's also diatomecous earth as well as the cheap standby, boric acid: http://www.amazon.com/Diatomaceous-Eart ... 00025H2PY/
Or iron phosphate: http://www.amazon.com/Monterey-Sluggo-S ... 000BWZ89K/

Good news for those of us with limited indoors and outdoors space. There is a book to tackle this thorny problem that I've been reading entitled Fresh Food from Small Spaces: The Square-Inch Gardener's Guide to Year-Round Growing, Fermenting, and Sprouting. I tentatively plan on growing sprouts via an automatic machine, indoor mushrooms and making ginger beer. It's well worth reading (but not for $20).

https://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Food-Small ... 60358028X/

MachineGhost wrote: Seattle, huh? Have you read The Really Big One thread?

I did. Luckily I'm East of I-5, so I at least have a chance!

MachineGhost wrote: But you need to get what's called "slow bolt" cilantro so you can get more out of it before it flowers. I picked up a packet from Seeds of Change at Home Depot: http://www.seedsofchange.com/quickfacts ... 848&cat=82

How fast does "slow bolt" cilantro bolt? I think it took two weeks between planting my seedling and bolting. But perhaps that's the issue - should have started from seed.

MachineGhost wrote: The MachineGhost Kill 'Em All Bug Zapper Cocktail is not technically a pesticide, even though you spray it. It's a bacteria, flower extract and mineral combo. Other than maybe the boric acid (which is a put on the ground thing not a spray), its safe for mammals unlike pesticides.

I'd love it if I could avoid any type of treatment -- just rely on diligence (I like the ritual of inspecting/protecting my plants in the morning) and natural predators. Perhaps it's not possible...

drumminj wrote: How fast does "slow bolt" cilantro bolt? I think it took two weeks between planting my seedling and bolting. But perhaps that's the issue - should have started from seed.

No idea, but its still growing (from seed). El Nino seemed to have put a kibosh on things for half the year until it finally lifted last week. For living in a darn desert, I sure expected a longer growing season. Next year I plan on just sowing directly using http://www.growmigo.com/ Be sure and let them know if any of the dates seem off for your location.

drumminj wrote: I'd love it if I could avoid any type of treatment -- just rely on diligence (I like the ritual of inspecting/protecting my plants in the morning) and natural predators. Perhaps it's not possible...

You might be able to if you used only natural pests but the problem is keeping them there. Once the food is gone, they're gone.

Anyone got the space to try this out??? It seems very neat.

http://www.farmfromabox.com/

Maddy wrote:If you could elaborate a little more on what you've got, maybe I could come up with some ideas. I'm sort of an expert at coming up with solutions on a shoestring. Meet me at the Permanent Garden thread?

So how can I detox my soil and potting soil mixes of cedar wood shavings that are mixed in and probably killing the soil microbiome?

MachineGhost wrote:

Maddy wrote:If you could elaborate a little more on what you've got, maybe I could come up with some ideas. I'm sort of an expert at coming up with solutions on a shoestring. Meet me at the Permanent Garden thread?

So how can I detox my soil and potting soil mixes of cedar wood shavings that are mixed in and probably killing the soil microbiome?

I was going to ask whether the cedar was in chunks of a size that could be screened out with a wire mesh. Shavings sound like they're in there for good. What size plot are we talking about? Are you presently planting in rows?

My thought would be to build the soil upward in raised rows. You could bring in an all-purpose garden mix (1/3 compost, 1/3 topsoil, 1/3 peat, or something similar) for about $20 a yard, which would go quite a ways if you shaped it into 2-foot-wide, 6-inch-high rows. Most veggie plants don't grow any deeper than about 6 inches, so you could completely avoid the cedar-laced soil.

Another approach would be the so-called "lasagna method," which is a way of building new soil on top of the bad. Basically you throw layers of compostable stuff in layers right on top of your soil. You never till it in. I'm not sure how long it takes to create a 6-inch layer of new soil, but my recollection is that it works pretty fast. You might try googling "lasagna method" and reading about it.

Here's an article that debunks the "myth" that cedar is bad for gardens. http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cedar-mulc ... 66364.html So maybe you should do a little more research and investigation before concluding that your soil has been ruined. One alternative possibility that comes to mind is that wood shavings of any sort tend to gobble up nitrogen, leaving your soil nitrogen-depleted. Have you had a soil analysis done? There are lots of mail order labs that will do a comprehensive panel of tests for a reasonable fee (I'm thinking I paid something like $40 for the whole shebang). That would allow you to rule out the most obvious thing--a nutrient deficit or excess of some kind. You can get the name of a lab in your area from your local extension service.

Maddy wrote:I was going to ask whether the cedar was in chunks of a size that could be screened out with a wire mesh. Shavings sound like they're in there for good. What size plot are we talking about? Are you presently planting in rows?

My thought would be to build the soil upward in raised rows. You could bring in an all-purpose garden mix (1/3 compost, 1/3 topsoil, 1/3 peat, or something similar) for about $20 a yard, which would go quite a ways if you shaped it into 2-foot-wide, 6-inch-high rows. Most veggie plants don't grow any deeper than about 6 inches, so you could completely avoid the cedar-laced soil.

Another approach would be the so-called "lasagna method," which is a way of building new soil on top of the bad. Basically you throw layers of compostable stuff in layers right on top of your soil. You never till it in. I'm not sure how long it takes to create a 6-inch layer of new soil, but my recollection is that it works pretty fast. You might try googling "lasagna method" and reading about it.

This is what I stupidly used: http://www.awf.com/american_wood_fibers ... edding.htm
It is pretty much heavyweight-paper-thin wood shavings. I used it because I couldn't find a local source of natural wood mulch to use as a topper for the garden.

No I don't plant in rows. I've got 15-gallon tote containers for fruits and vetables and an in-ground area for flowers which is pretty much a narrow strip about 20' wide and 3' height. The only common denominator between the two of them besides the water (which is now filtered to rule that out as a variable) is those stupid cedar wood shavings.

Since I was using white plastic trash bags as mulch covers for the totes, I believe I thought it was letting in too much heat and light so replaced it with the wood shavings near the end of last season. And I do believe everything promptly halted growing but there wasn't much time left to be sure it wasn't the colder weather. Not much grew because the soil was too boggy anyway. That was fixed for this season, but everything grows like molasses and some fruits won't mature at all.

When the tomato plants were struggling (still are), I checked the pH of the soil and found it clearly acidic so added on some lime and that seemed to help. Perhaps the wood shavings made the soil too acidic 'cuz it was certainly neutral at the beginning of the season when I last chcked.

I already got Azomite minerals, lime and organic fertilizer and a pH/water tester for the soil. What is a soil analysis gonna tell me that I don't know already?

What seems like the best to get? County extension doesn't seem to offer it but relies on private sector. I'm leaning towards the latter because it's the most consumer-friendly.

My extension agent recommended a package that included the following:

NO3-N (nitrate)
NH4-N (ammonia)
Phosphorus
Potassium
Sulfur
Zinc
Boron
pH
Soluble salts
Organic matter

The cost was $36 four years ago. If it were me, I probably wouldn't get any fancier than that, since a difficulty growing anything would tend to suggest a problem with something basic like pH or one of the macronutrients, rather than something obscure. But knowing you. . .