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Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:02 am
by Libertarian666
WiseOne wrote: Maybe not every show, but most of the time yes!  And FWIW Harry Browne said he watched the Daily Show regularly.

The show has been described as predominantly liberal, but I don't think that's accurate - they skewer anything/anyone who deserves it, and liberal politicians & causes have certainly gotten their share of abuse.
He has indeed skewered liberals on occasion, but it seems to me that if he has a chance to distort something that Rand Paul or another libertarian says, he takes it. He gives it to conservatives too, of course, but they deserve it more frequently in my opinion.  :P

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:47 pm
by MachineGhost
Simonjester wrote: i do wish my translator was less glitchy today, it appeared like the article (court case?) was referring to testing done by the vaccine producer that had data dropped or left out regarding autism, but that is only a impression based on a quick skim in a faulty popup window ENG version of the article so..... ?
That was my understanding too, but also that the Ministry of Health neglected to respond in the time frame required, so the plaintiff's won by default.  I just don't feel that is winning the argument on the merits.

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:56 pm
by MachineGhost
WiseOne wrote: This is exactly why there are measles outbreaks happening right now.  You get enough people thinking this way and then not vaccinating, and then you'll find out what happens when herd immunity breaks down.
But is the herd immunity is breaking down because we no longer have natural herd immunity vs inferior herd immunity from vaccinations?  I don't see how we can tease apart the unvaccinated infected from the vaccinated infected when both groups are getting the measles.  All we know is that the herd immunity of some kind has weakened.  It's logical to assume it is from lack of vaccinations because of long-standing propaganda about vaccinations and herd immunity, but unless there is a direct comparison between the two groups in a proper trial, we could be chasing after a red herring in terms of blame.  If vaccines are truly not good enough, we need to develop better technology and that won't happen as long as everyone is too busy covering their own ass over a mirage.

I'm going to err on the side of liberty for parents until we have some irrefutable evidence that who so-called authorities are blaming is indeed who is worth blaming rather than relatively ineffective vaccines.  We really ought to get politics out of science.

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:00 pm
by MachineGhost
I'm sending the below letter to Congress.  While I'm not holding my breath because of FEAR+CHILDREN+POLITICS, I think it summarizes the current concern about vaccines pretty well:
I was distressed to read that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress filed a "Vaccines Saves Lives" resolution last Friday in a predictable reaction to the recent measles outbreaks. The resolution interprets the vaccination issue as some kind of national security threat that would trump my right to make informed decisions about my children's health!

Scientific studies prove that vaccines are not 100% safe -- nor are they guaranteed to stop diseases. From 2005 to 2014, no child in America died from measles, yet 108 babies died from the MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) vaccine. In the recent measles outbreak among California residents, 12% of the cases occurred in vaccinated individuals.

The CDC calls for more and more vaccines, at younger and younger ages. Newborns in 1964 were immunized against six diseases. Today they are vaccinated against sixteen diseases, receiving one injection at birth and up to nineteen more injections in their first six months of life. So many vaccinations at such a young age are a tremendous assault on a child's immune system. Multiple vaccines given close together may overstimulate the growing brain's immune system and destroy brain cells.

Many of these vaccines contain preservatives and adjutants. In fact, any multi-dose vial of vaccine is mandated by law to include preservatives to prevent microbial growth. Until recently the preservative of choice was thimerosal, a mercury derivative, which is still used in the flu vaccine. Mercury is a poison -- why is it in a much-promoted vaccine?

The DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis) vaccine, given at 2, 4, and 6 months of age, contains aluminum. Other vaccines may contain formaldehyde, antibiotics, albumin, gelatin, and yeast products. Consumers and doctors have a right to full disclosure concerning the additives in (and risks of) vaccines.

Congress needs to start listening to mothers and fathers. Parents deserve answers, not political rhetoric! Why not allow the baby more time to develop before the vaccine assault? Why not space out the vaccinations more? Why not more single shots rather than multiple ones? Why not get rid of the nasty ingredients that are not part of the shot itself? Why not also take steps to ensure the independence of federal agencies from Pharma influence?

These are reasonable questions that deserve thoughtful, reasonable answers, not political posturing or tougher mandates. Please reject the recent vaccine resolution, and start listening to the science and seeking answers to these troubling vaccine issues.

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:08 pm
by ochotona
I had a NASTY case of measles in 1979, at age 18. My childhood vacc plain wore off. I was as sick as a dog, it was awful. I was semi-delirious, fevered, light phobic, body pains, chills, OMG I don't wish it on anyone.

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:08 am
by Mountaineer
MachineGhost wrote: I'm sending the below letter to Congress.  While I'm not holding my breath because of FEAR+CHILDREN+POLITICS, I think it summarizes the current concern about vaccines pretty well:
I was distressed to read that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress filed a "Vaccines Saves Lives" resolution last Friday in a predictable reaction to the recent measles outbreaks. The resolution interprets the vaccination issue as some kind of national security threat that would trump my right to make informed decisions about my children's health!

Scientific studies prove that vaccines are not 100% safe -- nor are they guaranteed to stop diseases. From 2005 to 2014, no child in America died from measles, yet 108 babies died from the MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) vaccine. In the recent measles outbreak among California residents, 12% of the cases occurred in vaccinated individuals.

The CDC calls for more and more vaccines, at younger and younger ages. Newborns in 1964 were immunized against six diseases. Today they are vaccinated against sixteen diseases, receiving one injection at birth and up to nineteen more injections in their first six months of life. So many vaccinations at such a young age are a tremendous assault on a child's immune system. Multiple vaccines given close together may overstimulate the growing brain's immune system and destroy brain cells.

Many of these vaccines contain preservatives and adjutants. In fact, any multi-dose vial of vaccine is mandated by law to include preservatives to prevent microbial growth. Until recently the preservative of choice was thimerosal, a mercury derivative, which is still used in the flu vaccine. Mercury is a poison -- why is it in a much-promoted vaccine?

The DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis) vaccine, given at 2, 4, and 6 months of age, contains aluminum. Other vaccines may contain formaldehyde, antibiotics, albumin, gelatin, and yeast products. Consumers and doctors have a right to full disclosure concerning the additives in (and risks of) vaccines.

Congress needs to start listening to mothers and fathers. Parents deserve answers, not political rhetoric! Why not allow the baby more time to develop before the vaccine assault? Why not space out the vaccinations more? Why not more single shots rather than multiple ones? Why not get rid of the nasty ingredients that are not part of the shot itself? Why not also take steps to ensure the independence of federal agencies from Pharma influence?

These are reasonable questions that deserve thoughtful, reasonable answers, not political posturing or tougher mandates. Please reject the recent vaccine resolution, and start listening to the science and seeking answers to these troubling vaccine issues.
MG, I must say that your letter contained calm and reasonable text.  I'm somewhat disappointed you did not use the term "whack job" even one time.  Thus, any claims you make in the future on this forum about being consistent are somewhat suspect!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

... Mountaineer

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:49 pm
by MachineGhost
Mountaineer wrote: MG, I must say that your letter contained calm and reasonable text.  I'm somewhat disappointed you did not use the term "whack job" even one time.  Thus, any claims you make in the future on this forum about being consistent are somewhat suspect!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A) I didn't write the letter.
B) You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.  ESPECIALLY when you're talking to those over-inflated egotistic whackjobs in Congress.  It's best not to tell them how you REALLY feel if you want them to listen, which unfortunately is a large part of the reason they continue their parasitical ways.  :(

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:58 pm
by Mountaineer
MachineGhost wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: MG, I must say that your letter contained calm and reasonable text.  I'm somewhat disappointed you did not use the term "whack job" even one time.  Thus, any claims you make in the future on this forum about being consistent are somewhat suspect!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A) I didn't write the letter.
B) You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.  ESPECIALLY when you're talking to those over-inflated egotistic whackjobs in Congress.  It's best not to tell them how you REALLY feel if you want them to listen, which unfortunately is a large part of the reason they continue their parasitical ways.  :(
Ahhhhh, that's more like it!  I got a good belly laugh out of that.  You better hope they don't have the computer smarts to trace the letter to you on this forum.  You will be busted.  ;)

... Mountaineer

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:52 pm
by MachineGhost
[quote=http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/who-a ... le/2560647]Given the lack of research on their side, vaccine opponents have largely focused on questioning studies cited by medical experts — and arguing that there needs to be more research, period. Until you can definitively prove vaccines don't cause harm, they should be suspended or, at the very least, parents should be given ample opportunity to opt out, they say.

Demanding absolute proof that vaccines don't cause a whole host of conditions is an unfair demand on science, according to Sawyer. "That's a fundamental problem with science," he says. "It's very hard to prove a negative."

Another point often made by anti-vaxxers: The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. The program, established by Congress in 1988 to shield vaccine-makers from lawsuits, has awarded $2.8 billion for 3,941 claims of injury or death. Another 9,867 claims have been dismissed.

Vaccine advocates say that doesn't prove the 3,941 awarded people have been injured by or died from vaccines — it just means that judges were sufficiently convinced by their claims. But Sears says doctors are too dismissive of the awards.

"I don't think the vaccine injury court would pay out so much money for reactions that aren't really happening," Sears said.

But to many anti-vaxxers, the mere existence of the injury court proves the federal government has conspired to hide all the facts about vaccines while protecting drug companies who make bad products.

"I vaccinated my children, but what I did not understand is that the risks were understated," says Louise Kuo Habakus, a radio host and author of the book Vaccine Epidemic. "They told me, 'they're so safe, they're like water.' I was never told billions of dollars were paid out to people because of injury."

The CDC admits that vaccines can cause some serious side effects, although they're rare. The Tdap shot can cause seizures in one child out of 14,000. That ratio is one to 3,000 for the MMR vaccine. In extremely rare cases — less than one in a million — both shots can lead to long-term seizures, coma or permanent brain damage.

What anti-vaxxers dispute is how often those serious side effects occur.

"There is disagreement about how often it happens," Fisher says. "It's not just we believe, we know it happens more often than the government authorities are willing to admit."[/quote]

Re: Did Anti-Vaxxers Lead To New Measles Outbreak?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:44 pm
by MachineGhost
Here goes typical ham-fisted government overreach!  I sent the below letter to my state Senator:
The recent Disneyland measles outbreak has brought the vaccine debate front and center. I understand a bill has been introduced, SB277, that would eliminate the personal belief exemption for parents who don't want their children to be vaccinated.

This raises a number of concerns for parents, children, and patients in general.

Parents have a right to make their own decisions about treatments for their children based on informed consent. Limiting a patient's ability to make informed decisions about what gets put into his or her body violates medical ethics.

I know that the vaccination question is a hotly debated topic, even in the medical community. There is an abundance of evidence, for instance, that shows the dangers of exposure to even small amounts of mercury, which can still be found in flu vaccines. Studies have linked mercury to severe neurological effects and even autism. Despite the widely touted belief that the link between vaccines and autism has been "debunked," researchers found 83 cases of autism among those compensated by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for vaccine-induced brain damage.

You don't need to take my word for it. The pharmaceutical companies themselves have acknowledged the dangers of their products. One of the fathers of Merck's vaccine program warned the company that six month olds would suffer dangerous exposure to mercury after being vaccinated. Eli Lilly conducted studies which concluded that thimerosal, the vaccine preservative that contains mercury, was toxic in concentrations as low as one part per million, which is 100 times weaker than the concentration found in some flu vaccines.

Congress needs to face the facts: vaccines are not 100% safe -- nor are they guaranteed to stop diseases. From 2005 to 2014, no child in America died from measles, yet 108 babies died from the MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) vaccine. I'm also troubled by the recent testimony from a CDC whistleblower which suggests a longstanding attempt by the CDC to cover up adverse data on the safety of the MMR.

Other experts believe the overloading of a young immune system with so many vaccines at once can cause genetic changes. Some generally support vaccinations but wish there were more scientific clarity.

However, I think we all can agree that we need to keep information clear, unambiguous, and uncensored, and to allow people to make informed choices for themselves and their families -- especially when so much information and evidence exists of the possible dangers posed by some vaccines.

Current law protects both my family's health and our right to make our own healthcare choices, and I call upon you to oppose ANY legislation that would eliminate the personal belief exemption for vaccines.