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Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:58 pm
by Benko
TennPaGa wrote: I don't know what this means.  Or, maybe I do, but I don't think it is fair.
Relax.  If you look at your reply and PSs, they are both very reasonable sounding, and measured.  You sound more liberal than PS, but not raging at all. 

OTOH I haven't heard Bush derangement syndome for awhile (one of the other posts after yours).

I view libs are more likely (IMHO) to impose things on me that effect my life that I'm not happy with.  New Zealand (where I'm looking into moving to) has a progressive health care system, but they only let people into the country (above a certain age) who either have lots of MONEY or who have jobs they need.  In order words they do what is best for the country and probably don't use the word fair very often.  As opposed to our progressives who wish to let in a flood of people who will not be making a positive contribution  (as I guess it was MT pointed out).

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:10 pm
by Pointedstick
FWIW, back when I had a raging case of Bush Derangement Syndrome, it seemed blindingly obvious that the Valerie Plame affair was a debacle of epic proportions that would surely sink the tyrannical and corrupt Bu$h presidency! So I understand how bad these things can seem at the time, especially when you already really don't like the guilty party.

But I think we owe it to ourselves to have a bit more perspective. I think there's waaaaay worse stuff that Obama's presidency has given us than this. That's not to say that this isn't bad. But to me it doesn't look like anything at all uniquely bad.

And strategically, it's a distraction from all the other bad stuff Obama's still doing and will continue to do.
Simonjester wrote: isn't that a horrible truth ... the current scandal is a distraction from the unknown/unmentioned and far worse scandalous thing going now, and when it is exposed it will cover and distract from the next one in line..... what a way to run a government



not a partisan observation btw, it seems to be a habit that transcends party and effortlessly transitions from one president to the next....

(this is not one of the most optimistic thoughts to ever pass through my head)

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:27 pm
by MediumTex
I just want to make it clear that to me the Benghazi incident is unremarkable because I think that it is a manifestation of tendencies that ALL politicians have--i.e., to obfuscate, lie and deceive when things don't go their way.

Yes, it's bad that politicians are like this, but I would say it's also bad when it rains on a day that I want to do something outside--if an action is a manifestation of one's true nature, how can we get too tangled up in judging it according to our own standards?  The clouds clearly have a different standard than I do concerning when it should rain, and likewise politicians have a different concept of honesty and integrity than I do.  It would be a waste of my time to be outraged or indignant about this fact.  Doesn't it make more sense to seek to understand the fundamental natures of ALL of the things and creatures around us and just depend on them to act according to their natures, rather than exhausting ourselves with anger, frustration and outrage that the world doesn't behave according to our own personalized sense of the way that it should

I'm not saying that we shouldn't make judgments--I'm still going to shoot the fox that is raiding my hen house, but I won't blame the fox for being fox-like in his hen house raids.  He's just being a fox.  Unlike shooting the fox, however, with most things in life we are forced to coexist with the things that are acting according to a different set of standards than our own.  Why not just assume that everything will act according to its own nature and arrange our lives accordingly?

When I watch these talking heads on TV breathlessly reporting on the latest basket of dirty laundry, I always think to myself: What were they expecting?  A politician lied.  A criminal committed a crime.  A building burned down.  A person got drunk and wrecked his car.  Another person got mad and hurt someone he was supposed to care about.  What exactly is "new" or "news" about these things.  It strikes me as the human equivalent of an antelope and gazelle news program in which the lead story every single night is "Cheetah Kills Again!!!"

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:50 pm
by annieB
Well,you've got to look at the individual cheetah.
Don't make the mistake of lumping all cheetahs as killers.
LOL...

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:30 pm
by notsheigetz
MediumTex wrote: I just want to make it clear that to me the Benghazi incident is unremarkable because I think that it is a manifestation of tendencies that ALL politicians have--i.e., to obfuscate, lie and deceive when things don't go their way.
An observation I would like to make about most of these scandals is that they are usually a matter of straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel. Consider the granddaddy of all "gates" i.e., "Watergate" which caused president Nixon to resign. For years he conducted secret wars in Cambodia and Laos, dropping more bombs than were dropped in all off WWII, killing millions, and this goes down the memory hole. Cover up a silly break-in of your opponent's office during a campaign and the incident lives in infamy. Go figure.

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:39 pm
by MediumTex
annieB wrote: Well,you've got to look at the individual cheetah.
Don't make the mistake of lumping all cheetahs as killers.
LOL...
Yeah, you're right.

It's sort of like those sharks in Finding Nemo who were diligently trying to change their nature and improve their image.

This reminds me of a great story that I heard Joseph Campbell tell in a lecture...
A fable tells of a tigress, pregnant and starving, who comes upon a little flock of goats and pounces on them with such energy that she brings about the birth of her little one and her own death.

The goats scatter, and when they come back to their grazing place, they find this just-born tiger and its dead mother. Having strong parental instincts, they adopt the tiger, and it grows up thinking it's a goat. It learns to bleat. It learns to eat grass. And since grass doesn't nourish it very well, it grows up to become a pretty miserable specimen of its species.

When the young tiger reaches adolescence, a large male tiger pounces on the flock, and the goats scatter. But this little fellow is a tiger, so he stands there. The big one looks at him in amazement and says, "Are you living here with these goats?" "Maaaaaaa" says the little tiger. Well, the old tiger is mortified, something like a father who comes home and finds his son with long hair. He swats him back and forth a couple of times, and the little thing just responds with these silly bleats and begins nibbling grass in embarrassment. So the big tiger brings him to a still pond and this little fellow looks into the pond and sees his own face for the first time. The big tiger says "You see, you've got a face like mine. You're not a goat. You're a tiger like me. Be like me."

The big tiger takes the little tiger to his den, where there are the remains of a recently slaughtered gazelle. Taking a chunk of this bloody stuff, the big tiger says, "Open your mouth and take a bite." The little tiger backs away.  "I'm a vegetarian," he says.  "None of that nonsense," says the big tiger, as he shoves a piece of meat down the little tiger's throat.  The little tiger gags on it (as all do on true doctrine).

The little tiger begins to get the nutrients from the meat into his blood, into his nerves.  It's his proper food.  It nourishes his true nature. Spontaneously, he takes a long tiger stretch, the first one of his life.  Then a tiger roar comes out of his mouth.  The big tiger looks on with approval.  "There. Now you've got it.  Now we go into the forest and eat tiger food."

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:53 pm
by Jan Van

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:40 pm
by clacy
I've said all along, Benghazi is just noise.  A PR blunder, and a fair amount of incompetence in the sticky world of geopolitical security and intelligence. 

The IRS is the true scandal, because it appears there is a lot of deep seeded political bias the single most powerful enforcement mechanism for average Americans.  I have no idea if it runs up to the Administration (probably it does), but the agency itself obviously has a serious lack of controls if management can target regular Americans that they oppose politically.  Very scary stuff.

With all due respect to Ambassador Stevens and the other folks killed over there, that is the type of stuff that happens in foreign service. 

However it's very important that the IRS be purged of further political targeting.  If that goes unchecked and continues to worsen, there goes your democracy.

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:31 pm
by Benko
clacy wrote: However it's very important that the IRS be purged of further political targeting.  If that goes unchecked and continues to worsen, there goes your democracy.
The nature of bureaucracies is that they will almost always be filled with statists.  One can however let them know that rules matter and there will be consequences for violations.  OTOH there is the mafia analogy (for the guys in charge now):  Underlings know what the mafia boss wants done, so they just do it.  He does not have to ask for every little thing because people anticipate.  They know that pretty much no one is ever held responsible for anything.

Re: The Benghazi Political Circus

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:56 pm
by clacy
Benko wrote:
clacy wrote: However it's very important that the IRS be purged of further political targeting.  If that goes unchecked and continues to worsen, there goes your democracy.
The nature of bureaucracies is that they will almost always be filled with statists.  One can however let them know that rules matter and there will be consequences for violations.  OTOH there is the mafia analogy (for the guys in charge now):  Underlings know what the mafia boss wants done, so they just do it.  He does not have to ask for every little thing because people anticipate.  They know that pretty much no one is ever held responsible for anything.
True indeed.  Luckily with technology and the internet, most scandals like this will be broken eventually. 

And unlike the Mafia, most IRS employees aren't going to do or even potentially face jail time for fear of their manager.