Gyroscopic Investing

I'm not a lawyer or legal scholar, but a case for Manning having committed treason seems possible to me. Wiki leaks isn't the enemy but they promptly made the information publicly available to all of our enemies. As for the witnesses, we have a defined digital trail and Manning has already confessed, no witness required. The only real issue is whether we have to actually be at war for treason to occur, which I think is silly. We executed two people for giving the atom bomb to the Soviets despite not being at war at the time.

Basically the only argument against treason is that he INDIRECTLY gave classified information to our enemies. Not the best argument unless we want spies to start using the Internet to transmit information to avoid harsh punishment.

RuralEngineer wrote: I'm not a lawyer or legal scholar, but a case for Manning having committed treason seems possible to me. Wiki leaks isn't the enemy but they promptly made the information publicly available to all of our enemies. As for the witnesses, we have a defined digital trail and Manning has already confessed, no witness required. The only real issue is whether we have to actually be at war for treason to occur, which I think is silly. We executed two people for giving the atom bomb to the Soviets despite not being at war at the time.

Basically the only argument against treason is that he INDIRECTLY gave classified information to our enemies. Not the best argument unless we want spies to start using the Internet to transmit information to avoid harsh punishment.

I don't think that broad of an interpretation will fly in court. Manning can't be hanged for what Wikileaks did. If we start going down that road then we could be handing out treason charges against anyone who ever leaked anything to the New York Times. And to be frank the prosecution has still not produced any really credible evidence that our enemies got much out of what went on the web. Also the witness thing is actually pretty serious. His confession, which does not indicate giving anything to any enemy of the country, fails to negate the constitutional requirement for witnesses That was put into the Constitution very specifically to make treason a hard charge to prove.

But the Boston bomber is a different story. I feel rather strongly that his case should include a charge of treason both as a matter of law and on principal. He came to this country as a refugee. We took him in, sheltered and educated him. Later he voluntarily took an oath of allegiance to our country. Then he goes and sets off bombs killing and maiming scores of people as part of a worldwide terrorist campaign against us.

If that's not treason we might as well just draw a line through that part of the Constitution.

Regarding the Rosenbergs, they were not executed for treason. They were executed for violating the Espionage Act.

It's pointless, put a line through it. It will never be used effectively again.

I found several instances of blatant treason during the Cold War in a quick google search. Not a single treason conviction, mostly because of because of plea bargaining. Secrets sold that could have cost millions of lives in a potential conflict (assuming it stayed conventional, a fart in a hurricane if it didn't) and not a single execution after the 1950's. Some of the traitors are even out now. Crazy.

RuralEngineer wrote: It's pointless, put a line through it. It will never be used effectively again.

I found several instances of blatant treason during the Cold War in a quick google search. Not a single treason conviction, mostly because of because of plea bargaining. Secrets sold that could have cost millions of lives in a potential conflict (assuming it stayed conventional, a fart in a hurricane if it didn't) and not a single execution after the 1950's. Some of the traitors are even out now. Crazy.

I'm not so sure...

On October 11, 2006, a federal grand jury issued the first indictment for treason against the United States since 1952, charging Adam Yahiye Gadahn for videos in which he appeared as a spokesman for al-Qaeda and threatened attacks on American soil.

From here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason#United_States

Pointedstick wrote: In the end they do what they feel they can get away with, irrespective of what law or document says what. I think it's reflective on us as a people that we're so willing to forget our principles and let the government run roughshod over the rights we say we cherish when they're claimed by those we don't like.

All while the muppets cheer the authorities on from the sidelines.  It is so sickening.  But this is exactly how individual liberty has been eroded over time.  The only recourse is lawyers that care and the judicial branch.

Reub wrote: What if that citizen is part of an international terrorism plot and has information that could possibly save hundreds of lives?

Time to call in Jack Bauer!!!  He gets the job done.

He doesn't do that anymore. Now he's got a gifted child that needs protection.

rocketdog wrote: What I want to know is, Where is the outcry for pressure cooker control???  Clearly we need to implement background checks on anyone purchasing a pressure cooker, yet I haven't heard a peep from the media. 

Same for BBs and backpacks.  The humanity!  Where is the outcry?

smurff wrote:

rocketdog wrote: What I want to know is, Where is the outcry for pressure cooker control???  Clearly we need to implement background checks on anyone purchasing a pressure cooker, yet I haven't heard a peep from the media. 

Same for BBs and backpacks.  The humanity!  Where is the outcry?

Can I call 'em or what?

Williams-Sonoma Concedes Victory to Terrorists, Pulls Pressure Cookers From Shelves

It's a mindset issue. If it were me I'd be having a "screw the terrorists!" sale on pressure cookers with a free bottle of booze, a ham, and a poster featuring scantily clad women complimentary with every purchase.

It's an inverse marketing move. 

No terrorists worth his BBs are going to spend $200 for a pressure cooker at Williams Sonoma, complete with nosey sales staff ("Ooh, that's a nice choice.  This is our bestseller and you'll be really happy with it.  Can we have your mailing address or email address so we can keep you updated on sales and cooking classes?") when a $25.99 from Macy or $29.59 from Target will do their dirty work.