Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:41 pm**

Pointedstick wrote: I hear what you're saying, Coffee, but it's never so simple. Right now I'm already doing damage to my wife and kid by being gone in the morning when they wake up, and not returning until 6 PM. It feels like we barely see each other. We haven't moved in three years (blessedly), but during that time, our rent has been raised from $1,200/mo to $1,500/mo. We live on much more than rice and beans too.

Starting a business is a great idea, and I did just that a year ago. Living off an income stream from the business is the goal!

My wife and I honestly don't feel the need for a large, expensive house. That's not me being stingy and pushing her away, that's both of us wanting to avoid paying for more house than we need. If we were prepared to pay 200k in cash on a house, our preference would be to buy the land and build the house ourself. For half the price, we'd get a hell of a house. My experience has been that most conventionally-built houses are money sinks due to the systems and materials chosen, regardless of how much they cost. Doesn't matter how much you pay for dimensional lumber on a concrete foundation with a shingle roof; it's still going to be just as vulnerable to flooding, fire, rot, and mold.

TripleB wrote: I find it hard to believe that you can buy a house that has a sub 5:1 ratio of house price to rent. (i.e. $70k house that rents for $15k).
Different locations. 15k rental is in the high-cost location where we currently live; the 75k house in in a normal part of the country.

I'm with ya, regarding not buying more house than you need. Two years ago, I sold the McMansion and moved to a smaller house-- not out of financial necessity, but rather because it's an easier house to live in for two adults (and because I'm cheap). Takes less time to clean, too. I couldn't be happier. Smaller house, bigger yard for gardening.

I like the idea of earthbag construction, but the problem (in most places) with alt. construction is that you'll have to build so far out in the country that you're going to end up paying with your time in regard to travel to and from the city, for shopping.

I reject the concept that working has to be slave labor. Both of you guys are smart enough that if you put your focus and efforts into finding a way to make money, doing what you love (or at least doing something that creates an automated cash flow system-- like a web business) you could be free of the silk neck chain in a couple of years or less.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:50 pm**

Coffee wrote: I reject the concept that working has to be slave labor. Both of you guys are smart enough that if you put your focus and efforts into finding a way to make money, doing what you love (or at least doing something that creates an automated cash flow system-- like a web business) you could be free of the silk neck chain in a couple of years or less.

Currently working on it. However, I'm pragmatic and if my "dream job" doesn't pan out, then I want to be sure I can survive on my investments through ERE living. So essentially, I'm going ERE so I have full-time to pursue my dream, which I believe I can monetize within a few years, but without the pressure of needing to monetize it, because if it fails, I have ERE to fall back on, which isn't "bad" to me.

If I succeed then I'm doing something I enjoy and I'll build up a bigger PP and live a more traditional retirement (and donate all my money to the Cato Institute, EFF and NRA upon my death).

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:51 pm**

i just cut out cell phone contracts ... my current contract ran out and i decided to experiment with ting (discovered by way of a post here) if my math is right it should pay off the cost of buying a new phones VS getting "free" ones with a two year contract in under 11 months, and save around $1100. dollars over 2 years.....

i stopped buying discs from netflix and run my steaming to my TV via a old laptop, and i only get the below basic cable { $21} since over air channels are not available easily in my building canyon.

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:56 pm**

I don't think work is slave labor at all! ERE isn't because you hate work; I see it more as granting you the freedom to do the work you really want to do. I'm pretty happy with my job, all things considered. It's a huge money hose, I have a reasonable boss and good co-workers, the 401k match is generous, I can occasionally telecommute, and the perks are off the charts. The only real downside in my book is that I have to live in the SF bay area to work at it!

The real problem is not with my specific job, but with the 9-5 schedule in general. It really just doesn't agree with me, and it's hell on our family. That's why I've been developing a web business for the past year, and I couldn't agree more on the importance of developing a business. If I had to live on my business's income for 10 years vs 4 years at the 9-5, I'd take the former in a heartbeat. I can do it from home, I wouldn't have a commute, there's a more solid connection between work and results, etc.

You're exactly right about earthbag building being impractical in the city due to codes and such, except in New Mexico, where they actually have a code for it and there's a long tradition of earthen architecture. Of course, that limits you to New Mexico, but that's not so bad if it's where you were planning to move anyway…

Posted: **Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:26 pm**

Coffee wrote: I reject the concept that working has to be slave labor. Both of you guys are smart enough that if you put your focus and efforts into finding a way to make money, doing what you love (or at least doing something that creates an automated cash flow system-- like a web business) you could be free of the silk neck chain in a couple of years or less.

I like my job. But my goal is to divorce happiness from employment so that I can be free to love something unprofitable if I like.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:48 am**

Hello,

1- Why do you want a earthbag house? What for?

2- What type of busineses normally ER people do?

I don't think it is easy to earn from a web-site business ...

Regards

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:00 am**

frugal wrote: Hello,

1- Why do you want a earthbag house? What for?

Compared to a stick-framed house, it's more durable, more massive/insulating (depending on what the bags are filled with), and doesn't contain any toxic materials, doesn't require an expensive cement foundation. It won't rot, burn, or collect mold, either.

frugal wrote: 2- What type of busineses normally ER people do?

Whatever they want.

frugal wrote: I don't think it is easy to earn from a web-site business ...

I've been doing it for a year.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:08 pm**

Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.

What would you do different in your life?

Warmest regards.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:22 pm**

Tyler wrote: I bought a Tivo Premiere and an HD antenna. The Tivo charges $15 a month, but it's a great DVR and I can set a series recording for all of the network shows you'd get on Hulu (as well as the sports that aren't on Hulu).

I wish I knew about that before I bough the Roku 2 XD as I may have gone with it instead, as it is currently available for $50 in a Xmas clearance sale right now. However, I would only save $4 a month total over similar from the cable company. I want to drop that portion and recoup the $22 a month currently spent.

I also just bought the exact same cable modem leased by the cable company on eBay so I can avoid the $3.95 monthly rental fee. It will pay for itself in about a year.

It doesn't look cost effective at all to cut the cord, because the savings on triple play is larger than getting double play at their regular prices. You're also penalized if you just want basic analog cable, it costs $67 vs $58+$10 for digital HDTV. Stupid racket!

I may have to look into an alternative to unlimited digital phone. Any suggestions?

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:38 pm**

MG, What shows are tying you to cable? Have you verified that they're not available through Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, or Hulu Plus, or iTunes? Between the four of those, there's a *ton* of content. I think most of what you're missing is live sports, which is admittedly a tough nut to crack.

You can also replace the landline phone service with MagicJack, Ooma, or Voipo and basically get the exact same service for practically nothing. If you can replace cable and your landline with those services and pay regular price for internet, I'm willing to bet that it probably won't even approach $176/mo.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:48 pm**

I've been very happy with Ooma. Consumer Reports ranks it the best VoIP provider on quality and reliability. However, I purchased it in 2009 when there was $0 monthly fee for life, so basically as long as the Ooma VoIP box doesn't break I will have free phone service. Now if you buy an Ooma Telo you will have to pay a small monthly fee on the order of $5-7 a month to cover federal fees and taxes (depending on which state you live in).

I have heard that Magic Jack is not as reliable, but certainly much cheaper.

Another great option if you're technically inclined is to purchase an Obihai and use it with Google Voice. Google just announced that Voice will be free until at least Jan. 1st 2014 so you'll get at least a year of free voice calls. I predict it will be free for much, much longer.

Amazon sells the Obihai for $48.99 and you can see by the ratings that it is a quality product: http://www.amazon.com/OBi110-Service-Br ... B0045RMEPI

It's very simple to setup, but you have to be comfortable configuring the equivalent of a home wifi router in order to setup your Google Voice service. After you've setup the Obihai, you don't need to leave your computer online or anything like that - it's just like an Ooma or any other VoIP box that you plug in to your cable router and connect the other end to a standard RJ11 corded or cordless phone.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:05 pm**

Don't forget that on all these devices, you can plug the RJ11 into the phone wires in your house, not just to a single phone. Just be sure to disconnect your internal wiring from the phone company (a box outside your house) first.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:41 pm**

Pointedstick wrote: I think most of what you're missing is live sports, which is admittedly a tough nut to crack.

An OTA antenna will get you all of the live sports on the network channels you'd like in beautiful HD. In addition, you can stream all of the major sports on web-connected devices (for a fee) - Sunday Ticket on a PS3, and the rest on a Roku / Apple TV / PC. Just gotta watch out for blackout rules on the local teams.

Also, I don't mean to shill but the TiVo also streams Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon. I haven't found a need for Hulu yet, so my monthly bill for TiVo (basic OTA HDtv with a great interface) + Netflix is only $25 including tax. Sure beats my old satellite bill.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:08 pm**

Pointedstick wrote: MG, What shows are tying you to cable? Have you verified that they're not available through Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, or Hulu Plus, or iTunes? Between the four of those, there's a *ton* of content. I think most of what you're missing is live sports, which is admittedly a tough nut to crack.

You can also replace the landline phone service with MagicJack, Ooma, or Voipo and basically get the exact same service for practically nothing. If you can replace cable and your landline with those services and pay regular price for internet, I'm willing to bet that it probably won't even approach $176/mo.

I'm not into sports, so thats not an issue. Hulu Plus has all my shows but three I watch. Those three happen to be on AMC, TNT and FX, but it seems that Netflix and Amazon offer those when released as a DVD set, so thats not too bad. Nothing is that urgent I have to watch them the same week they come out.

I can't cut the cord completely because Grandma is a fan of Food Network (and sometimes Lifetime) and that is only on cable.

I'll check out those phone alternatives. Internet only would be $52.99 alone, Digital TV with a HD receiver is $69 which interestingly both total to what I'm paying now for triple play. So theres probably a double play deal to offer some savings. Triple play saves $35 over ala carte pricing but you still have to pay for the receiver ($10) and digital tier ($8).

I'm just not seeing much savings to be had here if I cant cut the cord completely. Esentially, so far I'm just giving up HD DVR and DVR service to replace it with a Roku 2 and save about $6 a month and save $4 a month buying a cable modem, so $10 total a month savings. BFD.

Posted: **Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:06 pm**

I'm working at being FI very early in my life too, I'm on track to be FI when I'm 31, but that's using simple math (a worst case scenario) that only includes my current income. With investment returns and a raise or two it might be sooner, who knows.

Other than regular PP investing, I am hoping to eventually be able to move to a Rust Belt type city with a college, and buy a rental property, Rust Belt type cities being my preference.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:19 am**

Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.

What would you do different in your life?

Warmest regards.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:38 am**

frugal wrote: Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.

Two chicks at the same time... a few times.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:46 am**

frugal wrote: Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.

What would you do different in your life?

Build houses for all my financially-struggling relatives.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:26 am**

TripleB wrote:
frugal wrote: Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.
Two chicks at the same time... a few times.

I think if you were a millionaire you could hook that up, too; 'cause chicks dig dudes with money.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:50 pm**

TripleB wrote:
frugal wrote: Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.
Two chicks at the same time... a few times.

Hahahahahahahaha, good one.

Posted: **Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:19 pm**

Kriegsspiel wrote:
TripleB wrote:
frugal wrote: Hello,

if you were alredy (or not) ER, and a big windfall arrives and you win for example a few million dollars.
Two chicks at the same time... a few times.
Hahahahahahahaha, good one.

I am cracking up over here with the Office Space references!

Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I'll tell you what I'd do, man: two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter Gibbons: That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Damn straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I were a millionaire I could hook that up, too; 'cause chicks dig dudes with money.
Peter Gibbons: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well, the type of chicks that'd double up on a dude like me do.

Somehow I can't picture many chicks getting hot for a guy with a $1,000 a month lifestyle... Although what makes ERE so liberating is that by the point you've committed to it you realize that type of relationship is superficial and unimportant compared to the relationships that matter. And the people that matter won't care if you live on $1,000 a month or $100,000...

Posted: **Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:17 pm**

Whoa, whoa, WHOA! Who ever said anything about a relationship

Posted: **Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:26 pm**

Gentlemen, there are ladies here.

Posted: **Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:03 pm**

Some ladies make good livings and pay for college doing it, so it's a gender-neutral conversation, IMO.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:12 am**

My feeling is that ER people living with a few money would completly change theirs lives and live like a millionaire.

Gyroscopic Investing

ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

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Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

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Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)

Re: ERE - early retirement extreme or not :-)