Gyroscopic Investing

Tyler wrote: Nice list, Jake. The only things I'd add are a few steps between 1x annual spending in savings and 33x in savings, as that's a wide gap.

Jake wrote:

Tyler wrote: Nice list, Jake. The only things I'd add are a few steps between 1x annual spending in savings and 33x in savings, as that's a wide gap.

Good point, I agree completely. The difficulty I had was defining something that felt like a real turning point between those two. Maybe 5 years of expenses? Maybe when you bank a decade's worth of expenses? I like your suggestions too and will think more about it.

Re personality types, I'm ENTP

Pointedstick wrote:

Jake wrote:

Tyler wrote: Nice list, Jake. The only things I'd add are a few steps between 1x annual spending in savings and 33x in savings, as that's a wide gap.

Good point, I agree completely. The difficulty I had was defining something that felt like a real turning point between those two. Maybe 5 years of expenses? Maybe when you bank a decade's worth of expenses? I like your suggestions too and will think more about it.

Re personality types, I'm ENTP

Still a Rational! 

http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/rational_overview.asp

stone wrote: Like you guys I too was a recipient of the previous  UK education system benevolence and finished a PhD debt free.

Pointedstick wrote: I wonder how many of us are engineers (I am too). It's sort of interesting how many engineer types are attracted to mastering money and adopting small government/libertarian ideals. The INTJ profile strikes again!

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote: Engineer ENTJ (I think, I'll have to check). And great posts here. I'm 25 right now and have about 7 years of expenses saved up right now (that is while still single- that value drops when I'd get married or have a kiddie.)

Pointedstick wrote:

1NV35T0R (Greg) wrote: Engineer ENTJ (I think, I'll have to check). And great posts here. I'm 25 right now and have about 7 years of expenses saved up right now (that is while still single- that value drops when I'd get married or have a kiddie.)

You might be surprised. It depends on who you marry, of course, but I saved a bunch of money in taxes once I entered the married tax bracket since my wife doesn't work. Of course, I happen to be blessed with a wife who's almost as into minimalism and financial independence as I am. Also, kids are a lot less expensive than many people think IMHO.

BearBones wrote: Back to the topic, I wonder if a potential milestone before your 5th (Annual passive investment income becomes larger than your annual expenses) might be having a job that you love and/or believe in so much that you don't have any desire to retire?

BearBones wrote:having a job that you love and/or believe in so much that you don't have any desire to retire?

Maybe if I was fully financially independent I would keep doing some consulting where the aggravation and overhead to start a gig is small (unlike becoming an employee) and if the customer/client didn't like my opinion I could walk without worrying where/when the next gig would come.

stone wrote: I too was a recipient of the previous  UK education system benevolence...

AgAuMoney wrote:

BearBones wrote:having a job that you love and/or believe in so much that you don't have any desire to retire?

If you can find that, more power to you.  But I will wonder what is wrong with you...

I had my first passbook savings account by the time I was 10 (they paid 5-1/4% interest at the time).  I calculated many times then and ever since how much I needed to have put aside to pay my expenses.  Some jobs aren't bad.  Some jobs are horrible.  The only change is the urgency I feel to escape, but I've never had the desire to "do it til the day I die."

I just cannot see dedicating any significant portion of my time to satisfying the whims of either an employer or customers/clients.  It seems that even the best job has times where kissing up is required, and with that threat my time is never fully my own.  Maybe if I was fully financially independent I would keep doing some consulting where the aggravation and overhead to start a gig is small (unlike becoming an employee) and if the customer/client didn't like my opinion I could walk without worrying where/when the next gig would come.

Maybe I'm too cynical.  Maybe I'm a realist.  Or maybe its all a matter of perspective and from mine I'm just more interested in freedom to pursue my own interests without reporting to anyone when those interests change.

AgAuMoney wrote: I just cannot see dedicating any significant portion of my time to satisfying the whims of either an employer or customers/clients.  It seems that even the best job has times where kissing up is required, and with that threat my time is never fully my own.

BearBones wrote:

AgAuMoney wrote: I just cannot see dedicating any significant portion of my time to satisfying the whims of either an employer or customers/clients.  It seems that even the best job has times where kissing up is required, and with that threat my time is never fully my own.

What if you were your own boss? What if you were helping people? Or building/sculpting/painting beautiful things? Or writing children's books? Or making a specialty wine at your Sonoma valley vineyard?

The ideal vocation is without great distinction from avocation, IMO.

Jake wrote:

BearBones wrote:

AgAuMoney wrote: I just cannot see dedicating any significant portion of my time to satisfying the whims of either an employer or customers/clients.  It seems that even the best job has times where kissing up is required, and with that threat my time is never fully my own.

What if you were your own boss? What if you were helping people? Or building/sculpting/painting beautiful things? Or writing children's books? Or making a specialty wine at your Sonoma valley vineyard?

The ideal vocation is without great distinction from avocation, IMO.

I think it's awesome to find a job that is your calling. If your "work" is something that you would do for free anyway, then the fact that you make an income from it is a bonus. The key distinction in my mind is that if you are financially free you can do that job you love as long as you want and you also don't have to do it. You are free to change your mind about loving it and stop working, or try something else, or carry on loving doing it. It's an optional activity undertaken for fulfilment and not a requisite activity undertaken for survival.

I think it's awesome to find a job that is your calling. If your "work" is something that you would do for free anyway, then the fact that you make an income from it is a bonus. The key distinction in my mind is that if you are financially free you can do that job you love as long as you want and you also don't have to do it. You are free to change your mind about loving it and stop working, or try something else, or carry on loving doing it. It's an optional activity undertaken for fulfilment and not a requisite activity undertaken for survival.

Jake wrote: The key distinction in my mind is that if you are financially free you can do that job you love as long as you want and you also don't have to do it. You are free to change your mind about loving it and stop working, or try something else, or carry on loving doing it. It's an optional activity undertaken for fulfilment and not a requisite activity undertaken for survival.

if you really love what you do, you are much more likely to be successful. There is a giant feedback loop involved. Such people go the extra mile, they are curious, and they are happy. Because of this, they get very good at what they do, and they receive a lot of perks that make them even happier. They are also tend to be much more adaptable.

BearBones wrote: Good point, Stone. I have been focusing on the former. But moving in the direction of Pointedstick and other EREesqe folks here is equally important. Thanks.