Gyroscopic Investing

Tortoise wrote: And... I couldn't help but notice that your signature is a quote from L. Ron Hubbard, AdamA. Are you a fan of his science fiction writings, but not of Scientology?

No, I just thought the quote was interesting, given the source.  He has some other good ones too (good in the context of who he was).  "The only way to control people is to lie to them."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

i have to admit i am a fan of his science fiction, it has been years since i have read any but the book battlefield earth was great, (and one of the worst movies ever) and there was some other huge series "mission earth" about some conniving evil alien infiltrating earth that i read all 11 or 12 books in the series, 

MediumTex wrote: Below is a great video of the Scientology harrassment crew that stalked a former Scientology member who had been a member of the church for decades (4:45):

Lord have mercy, those videos are creepy!  I wish that Xenu would beam a blinking "SNAP OUT OF IT!!" marquee to these drooling kooks.

It's not the strangeness of the belief system that galls me.  It's the litigious behavior, secretiveness, human programming, and financial destruction that the organization wreaks upon its followers and the world.  There is simply no parallel to this in any standard religion of today.

Anyone who wishes to do so can easily read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, or the Book of Mormon for free.  You can contribute as little or as much as you like to the organizations these holy books represent.  Why does a tax-exempt "religion" get to hide its sacred texts from any prying eyes that haven't ponied up a couple hundred grand?

Lone Wolf wrote:

MediumTex wrote: Below is a great video of the Scientology harrassment crew that stalked a former Scientology member who had been a member of the church for decades (4:45):

Lord have mercy, those videos are creepy!  I wish that Xenu would beam a blinking "SNAP OUT OF IT!!" marquee to these drooling kooks.

It's not the strangeness of the belief system that galls me.  It's the litigious behavior, secretiveness, human programming, and financial destruction that the organization wreaks upon its followers and the world.  There is simply no parallel to this in any standard religion of today.

Anyone who wishes to do so can easily read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, or the Book of Mormon for free.  You can contribute as little or as much as you like to the organizations these holy books represent.  Why does a tax-exempt "religion" get to hide its sacred texts from any prying eyes that haven't ponied up a couple hundred grand?

Wacky beliefs are not that big a deal.  It's the wacky behaviors that arise from those beliefs that are cause for concern and alarm.  I do not believe that the "Squirrel Busters" media team are doing work that is helpful to anyone.

I also think it is peculiar to reduce the "truth" to a set of writings and techniques and then attempt to build an intellectual property fence around them and charge an outrageous toll for anyone to access them.  That sort of tactic alone suggests that there is little "truth" at the heart of the whole effort.  The Christian church used to do that with the Bible and it just led to a whole lot of ugliness.  Once people were allowed to read the Bible for themselves, I think the church became a much less thug-centric entity.

Ad Orientem wrote: I don't think I agree. Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are weird but not cult like. Nor are they engaged in the kind of really crazy criminal activities that Scientology has been involved in. I mean the Mormons didn't break into the IRS building and bug it or send goons out to spy on government agents in an effort to dig up something to blackmail them with. And Hubbard was a con-artist who should have done time in the clink.

I think JW is definitely cult-like.  Like Scientology, there is coercion and persecution to stay in the religion.  Mormonism is more "mainstream" but still has increasing levels of exclusivity and rituals that strongly discourages contact with secular outsiders.  I recommend reading Crisis of Conscience for an inside look at how JW operates: http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience ... 914675249/

Religion institutionalization is whack, no doubt about it.  But Scientology really takes it to a whole new level of batshit insane obsessiveness.

Coffee wrote: To suggest that Romney's religion would control U.S. foreign policy, if not anti-semitic, is definitely anti-Mormon.  Is it not possible for a Mormon to think for himself?  He's suggesting that Romney will be a "Manchurian Candidate" taking his orders from the Church in Utah.  And since the Church in Utah is pro-Israel [his Wiki linkage, not mine.] the implication is that we're guaranteed to run our foreign policy in a manner that benefits Israel and not us.

I didn't see any anti-Semitism, but I thought he was alluding to Romney's expressed intention to invade Iran after he is President.  At this point, everything is so wag the dog when you have right-wing outlets cooking up stories, moderate outlets reporting on inspections not finding any evidence, and left-wing outlets pandering to the head in the clouds, anti-war party line.

It blows my mind that perceptions are reality for so many people now.  I seriously doubt if truth matters much anymore.  Its all about the agenda and making a profit.  Was Rome like this before the fall?

Reub wrote: I seem to notice a lot of religious intolerance in some of these threads. It makes me uncomfortable.

Don't worry, I believe we all suppport radical tolerance for our fellow man (even Scientologists) at the end of the day.  Like the Communist sympathizers of old, playing hobby politics and taking action are thankfully worlds apart.  We should not fear unfettered opinions and intellectual debate.

l82start wrote: i have to admit i am a fan of his science fiction, it has been years since i have read any but the book battlefield earth was great, (and one of the worst movies ever) and there was some other huge series "mission earth" about some conniving evil alien infiltrating earth that i read all 11 or 12 books in the series,  

Why does everyone always think Battlefield: Earth was one of the worst movies ever made?  I thought it was a really good sci-fi epic.

MediumTex wrote: I also think it is peculiar to reduce the "truth" to a set of writings and techniques and then attempt to build an intellectual property fence around them and charge an outrageous toll for anyone to access them.  That sort of tactic alone suggests that there is little "truth" at the heart of the whole effort.  The Christian church used to do that with the Bible and it just led to a whole lot of ugliness.  Once people were allowed to read the Bible for themselves, I think the church became a much less thug-centric entity.

It's really interesting to think that the lack of transparency in Scientology is at odds with all of the other religions.

Time to invent a new term: crony religiousnism.

MachineGhost wrote:

l82start wrote: i have to admit i am a fan of his science fiction, it has been years since i have read any but the book battlefield earth was great, (and one of the worst movies ever) and there was some other huge series "mission earth" about some conniving evil alien infiltrating earth that i read all 11 or 12 books in the series, 

Why does everyone always think Battlefield: Earth was one of the worst movies ever made?  I thought it was a really good sci-fi epic.

  my personal opinion may have been biased by reading the book, the movie falls far far short in comparison, i am not sure why it got bad reviews from everyone else, but it was almost universal, i don't think i saw a single good review.  it had potential to be a great movie, they should have stuck to the book more and avoided using the tired movie tropes that left it feeling like it was sewn together from bits of every other sci fi move, 

Accepting that the Watchtower Society did not have a monopoly on truth was distressing. I did not want to think that I had risen early in the morning, donned a suit, and knocked on doors all day for nothing. I did not want to think I had submitted to the authority of the elders when I could have dismissed them as powerless. I wanted the Witnesses to have the truth lest it invalidate decades of hard work.

I likewise wanted my belief in a future paradise to be true. Living forever on a beautiful Earth in perfection was far more appealing than lilting on the clouds playing the harp, going through an endless cycle of rebirths, or having no hope of an afterlife at all.

Above all, though, I assumed it was not hurting anyone if I remained a Witness.

This is what I told myself, sometimes multiple times a day. I continued repeating it as a silent, stupid mantra, even after a good friend was shunned because of his homosexuality, even after my cousin was wrongfully expelled from the congregation on baseless charges, and even following the news that some young boys in the congregation had been molested by an adult Witness who had often been touted as an exemplary member of the congregation.

http://tinyurl.com/bntwv34

This is too weird not to be believed!

The Mothership of All Alliances
Scientology and the Nation of Islam: America’s two weirdest sects join forces.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/mag ... n-of-islam