doodle,
I envision a few different countries that would work out from the US:
1) The southeast quadrant can be one country.
2) The Northeast Quadrant would include MN, IL, and WI... maybe even IA, and would be another.
3) The 3rd would be all the western states less the coastal states.
4) The 4th would be Washington, Oregon & Cali.
Ther may be room to assemble a 5th state by taking some of the northern "midwest states" and grouping them into one.
I think that would be themost reasonable way to do it.
Who is Mitt Romney?
Moderator: Global Moderator
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
The exercises of state power you are describing are simply codifications of changing cultural values. What you are describing is the equivalent to there being a law against murder. That's not really the kind of expansion of state control that I am talking about.doodle wrote: MT,
I would disagree with this statement. Child labor laws, health and environmental regulations, race and equality laws. There are plenty of examples of how unbridled freedom throughout history and during the industrial revolution produced horrible consequences until the state stepped in.expansions of state power have virtually never led to better lives for the people living under such systems
I am not suggesting that every state action leads to tyranny. What I am suggesting is more an attitude on the part of the government that any rights individuals have exist because the government granted it to them and a belief among politicians that they really do have the answers concerning the way everyone within society should think and act.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
Simonjester wrote:i am thinking in terms of restoring/reapplying the principles of limited government and states rights to the way we do things, the fundamentals of the system (IE separations of powers) are pretty solid IMO.. some changes like term limits could certainly be discussed...doodle wrote: Simon,
When "rebooting" this constitutional republic are you envisioning recreating that which our founding father's devised 200 years ago? Or, is it better to talk about maybe redesigning things along slightly different lines...maybe a parliamentary system with more than two parties? Office term limits...etc. etc.
Simon,
A few questions about how to reboot:
1) Would we go back to pre-Jacksonian republic where we don't vote for president or the senate?
2) Would non-landowners be able to vote?
3) Since there is much, much more interstate commerce now than there was in 1776 as a percentage of GDP, would federal regulations even be severely hampered?
4) Would states have full control of voting procedures, including poll taxes and intelligence tests?
5) Would corporations be limited in their legal protection to the same degree they were in the country's early years?
6) Would the federal constitution have any weight on state/local government overreach?
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
Simonjester wrote:moda0306 wrote: Simon,
A few questions about how to reboot:
1) Would we go back to pre-Jacksonian republic where we don't vote for president or the senate?
2) Would non-landowners be able to vote?
3) Since there is much, much more interstate commerce now than there was in 1776 as a percentage of GDP, would federal regulations even be severely hampered?
4) Would states have full control of voting procedures, including poll taxes and intelligence tests?
5) Would corporations be limited in their legal protection to the same degree they were in the country's early years?
6) Would the federal constitution have any weight on state/local government overreach?
like mediumtex mentioned above there is no reason to go backwards on cultural values.. or much reason to assume that if we re-embrace limited government that we automatically would...
as for the changes you mention they are a mixture, some are interesting to debate some are cultural advances that we have no reason to mess with..
-IE i like voting for president and think it is good to keep, there are some legitimate reasons to have the senate elected the way they originally were, unfortunately its a bit beyond my knowledge level to debate, and i don't know which side i would end up falling on, if i had the necessary information to have an informed opinion...
-limiting the vote to land owners, poll taxes, and intelligence tests seem to be more cultural changes that we have no reason to restore and are not fundamental to either liberty or limited government. (some radical libertarian might make a go of debating landowner voting but i don't see it)
MT,
What exactly was Obama wrong about in the Trayvon Martin incident? I'm quite sure most of the facts about the scuffle were out at that time (minus the video that show Zimmerman with what appear to be no injuries that have recently come out). If I was being pursued by an agitated, aggressive, hot-head I probably would start swinging to defend myself, too. It's obvious from the two phone calls (both Treyvon wondering why he was being followed and Zimmerman aggressively pursuing "that a$$hole") that at the very least there was a period where Trayvon was running scared from this guy and Zimmerman was running aggressively towards him. It's even been pointed out that under FL law Trayvon probably could have legally shot Zimmerman at this point, as he felt in pretty imminent danger. I guess at this point, barring other evidence, I'd give Trayvon the benefit of the doubt as to who was the main aggressor in this scuffle.
It may be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what happened... but I'd hope Trayvon's family sues Zimmerman into financial ruin after this.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
I'm not saying Obama was wrong. I just don't think that the 17 year old Trayvon looks much like Obama, while the younger photos of Trayvon do favor Obama a bit.moda0306 wrote: MT,
What exactly was Obama wrong about in the Trayvon Martin incident?
If Obama had seen the 17 year old pictures first, it might not have occurred to him to say that if he had a son he would look like Trayvon.
As for the rest, I am inclined to defer to whatever decision the police/prosecutors/grand jury make in the case.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
Regarding what the jury, etc make of it, I would say that reasonable doubt may very well not be reached. However, people don't have to defer to reasonable doubt (decidedly more stringent than it sounds) when deciding who to defend in the situation, or who has "preponderence of the evidence" in a civil trial.... we don't often hear much defense for OJ Simpson.
So barring any new information, even if he is rightfully acquitted as "not guilty" (which I'd consider likely at this point, and not due to a lack of fairness in the system, but a lack of witnesses), I'll still think it's likely that Zimmerman's a hot-head who significantly over-stepped his authority in aggressively pursuing a kid... a kid that likely could have shot him using the same law that set Zimmerman free after being questioned.
So barring any new information, even if he is rightfully acquitted as "not guilty" (which I'd consider likely at this point, and not due to a lack of fairness in the system, but a lack of witnesses), I'll still think it's likely that Zimmerman's a hot-head who significantly over-stepped his authority in aggressively pursuing a kid... a kid that likely could have shot him using the same law that set Zimmerman free after being questioned.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
I may seem a bit heated on this. I'm still in my 20's and have a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak in me. I'd probably feel differently if I was in my 40's.
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."
- Thomas Paine
- Thomas Paine
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
Wow, did this thread ever go off topic quickly! I think the only post concerning Mitt was the first one I put up.
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. - Blaise Pascal
Re: Who is Mitt Romney?
I posted some Mitt stuff.doodle wrote: Wow, did this thread ever go off topic quickly! I think the only post concerning Mitt was the first one I put up.
You saw in his tax return information that he has a nice sized Swiss account, right? Maybe he is a closet PP'er.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”