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Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:48 am
by Gosso
KevinW wrote: Last time I read the translation available free on Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/216

There are many translations and strong opinions about which is best. It's perhaps analogous to the situation with translations of the Bible. Once I read a version that I found to be more poetic and freer-flowing than the Gutenberg edition, but sadly I returned it to the library without writing down which it was.  :-\
I decided to go with this translation of the Tao Te Ching.  Most reviewers like it, plus it is full of great pictures.

I'll see how it resonates with me, then I may try Wen-tzu.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:16 pm
by AgAuMoney
Alanw wrote:I guess I never really thought about younger people growing up with computers and the internet and using these resources for investing and trading the markets.  For those of us older posters who did not have computers or the internet for immediate information, we relied on  "experts" for our information.
I don't think computers and the internet had much of an effect on DIY except at the margin.  They made it easier to learn and do, made it more visible, so a few more people get involved.  Of course it looks like a lot, because it is a few added at each of many levels:  more people, more workers, more investors, more exposure, more DIY.

The majority of people doing for themselves just like/want/need to learn about and do something(s) for themselves.  I and people like me did that before the internet.  The learning is easier now.

Before the 'net it was books, magazines, night/community ed classes, clubs, ask a neighbor, etc.  That's how my grandfather built his own home, later added indoor plumbing, and wired it three times to first add electricity and then again each time electrical standards changed.  That's how I was helping my father do automotive repairs and extensive remodeling including wiring and plumbing since before I was 8 years old.  The first "DIY" experience I remember was taking the training wheels off my bicycle.  Dad couldn't do it for a few days, Mom didn't know how, so I got the tools and did it myself.  It worked great, but Dad did tighten the nuts more, when he got home that night.  My Mom says my first DIY experience was when I had been crawling for only a few days.  I followed the cord on the vacuum cleaner to the wall and unplugged it.  Soon she had to lock me up in a play pen whenever she was vacuuming, ironing, etc.  DIY is why I first read about personal computers ca. 1974, and have been building and using them extensively since 1976, and was online a few years later (after I built a 300bps modem).

DIY investment mostly relies on discount brokers cutting costs by cutting services.  This was happening long before most people had heard of the 'net.  There were many books and magazines on DIY investing published before the 'net was available at home and long before any discount broker had a web page.  I know, because I was reading them shortly after my father taught me about compound interest, etc. which was long before I knew multiplication, and then years later I was trying to explain the magic of compound interest to classmates when we learned about percentages in school.  My father did not do stocks, so I didn't have any practical experience there until after I left home, but he had me researching the best rate on CDs and moving funds between banks before I got my driver's license at 14.  Later I remember driving him around town late on Friday afternoons as he moved the payroll money from the reserve account into the payroll account so it would earn interest in both accounts over the weekend.  Researching rates is definitely a lot easier with the 'net instead of making phone calls to or visiting each and every bank!

Most DIY investors also do something else "just for fun/savings" that many if not most people would pay for.  Maybe it is gourmet cooking, or maybe flying a plane, or house painting, or whatever.  Funny tho, there are a lot of people who either never DIY at all, or are shocked and horrified that someone would DIY {x}.

DIY is more an attitude than anything else.  Some don't have it.  Some have a little and some have more.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:26 pm
by AgAuMoney
craigr wrote: Honestly the proliferation of CPU power has made trying to beat the market just as much of an issue as it was in the past. Maybe even worse???
Definitely.  And CPU power and communications speed has made trying to profit on short-term trades a sucker's bet.

A buddy that does programming for JP Morgan told me about how his firm and the others were trying just a couple of years ago to locate their data centers as physically close to the exchanges as possible, because shaving microseconds off the communication time could easily increase profits enough to pay for prime real estate.  Now they are all trying to internalize trading -- keep as many trades off the exchange as possible -- and move the rest thru private exchanges because margins on exchange trades have been driven so low and everyone is moving so fast the opportunities are drying up.

Of course, they are still working on faster computation, their research into FPGA and graphics hardware is turning out some amazing advances.  10's or 100's of millions are being spent to create hardware with a useful life of only a few months before it is obsolete.  Why?  Because shaving fractional cents by being faster or by correctly matching a pattern and thus predicting a move before everyone else is incredibly profitable.

Nobody can compete with the big guns doing that kind of business.  The only way to win is to play a different game entirely.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:29 pm
by AgAuMoney
Gosso wrote:With the internet it is now extremely easy to access new information (if you know where to look), so there is a greater chance that we'll stumble on Bogleheads or the PP, and save ourselves from the financial game.
But it is also easier to find support for whatever delusion you are suffering, "surely so many people cannot be wrong" and cost yourself a great deal.

I've read that perhaps the younger generation who has grown up with it, may have an advantage in sifting thru the noise on the 'net and picking up only the good stuff.  I hope so.  The problem seems likely to only get worse.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:47 am
by lazyboy
Gosso wrote:
KevinW wrote: Last time I read the translation available free on Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/216

There are many translations and strong opinions about which is best. It's perhaps analogous to the situation with translations of the Bible. Once I read a version that I found to be more poetic and freer-flowing than the Gutenberg edition, but sadly I returned it to the library without writing down which it was.  :-\
I decided to go with this translation of the Tao Te Ching.  Most reviewers like it, plus it is full of great pictures.

I'll see how it resonates with me, then I may try Wen-tzu.


I think it's a good idea to check several translations of the Tao Te Ching for comparison's sake. So far, after looking at a few I like the one I've had since the 1970s. It seems the most inspired and poetic of those I've looked at. I found it on Amazon. You can check out the inside and the reviews:  The Way of Life According to Lao Tzu translated by Witter Bynner  http://www.amazon.ca/The-Way-Life-Accor ... 571&sr=8-1

Of course I only spent $1.95 on it  :D

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:00 am
by Gosso
AgAuMoney wrote:
Gosso wrote:With the internet it is now extremely easy to access new information (if you know where to look), so there is a greater chance that we'll stumble on Bogleheads or the PP, and save ourselves from the financial game.
But it is also easier to find support for whatever delusion you are suffering, "surely so many people cannot be wrong" and cost yourself a great deal.

I've read that perhaps the younger generation who has grown up with it, may have an advantage in sifting thru the noise on the 'net and picking up only the good stuff.  I hope so.  The problem seems likely to only get worse.
I suppose the best way to look at the internet is by comparing it to a very sharp axe -- the axe is great for chopping wood, but it can also miss the block of wood and chop your toe off (OUCH!). 

I remember seeing a quote somewhere that said this:
The internet makes smart people smarter, and dumb people dumber.
Makes sense to me!

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:14 am
by Gosso
lazyboy wrote: I think it's a good idea to check several translations of the Tao Te Ching for comparison's sake. So far, after looking at a few I like the one I've had since the 1970s. It seems the most inspired and poetic of those I've looked at. I found it on Amazon. You can check out the inside and the reviews:  The Way of Life According to Lao Tzu translated by Witter Bynner  http://www.amazon.ca/The-Way-Life-Accor ... 571&sr=8-1

Of course I only spent $1.95 on it  :D
Too late  :)  But it does appear to be online, found here.

On Saturday I handed over $150 to Amazon so I can start building a decent library of "knowledge".  It included the following:
- The Bhagavad Gita
- The Way of Zen - Alan Watts
- The Jefferson Bible
- Tao Te Ching
- Power of Myth - Joe Campbell
- The Doors Of Perception And Heaven And Hell - Aldous Huxley
- Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas - Elaine Pagels
- LOTR - JRR Tolkien -- to give my brain an occasional break

I'm hoping this will give a good base to build on.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:10 pm
by longeyes
Gosso wrote:
lazyboy wrote: I think it's a good idea to check several translations of the Tao Te Ching for comparison's sake. So far, after looking at a few I like the one I've had since the 1970s. It seems the most inspired and poetic of those I've looked at. I found it on Amazon. You can check out the inside and the reviews:  The Way of Life According to Lao Tzu translated by Witter Bynner  http://www.amazon.ca/The-Way-Life-Accor ... 571&sr=8-1

Of course I only spent $1.95 on it  :D
Too late  :)  But it does appear to be online, found here.

On Saturday I handed over $150 to Amazon so I can start building a decent library of "knowledge".  It included the following:
- The Bhagavad Gita
- The Way of Zen - Alan Watts
- The Jefferson Bible
- Tao Te Ching
- Power of Myth - Joe Campbell
- The Doors Of Perception And Heaven And Hell - Aldous Huxley
- Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas - Elaine Pagels
- LOTR - JRR Tolkien -- to give my brain an occasional break

I'm hoping this will give a good base to build on.
Don't forget Thoreau's Walden.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:56 pm
by shoestring
MediumTex wrote:The fact that tools like 401(k) plans have turned the general public into hopeful/fearful speculators is unfortunate.
In my arrogant opinion, the worst part of that particular phenomenon is that they have turned into ignorant emotion driven speculators who believe that only the anointed can process the sheer difficulty of managing said 401k.  It's a bizarre and false dichotomy, there is either the expert "picker" or the completely ignorant person with nothing in between.  The concept of someone deciding on a mixture of investments and then just accepting whatever yield comes is foreign.

Seriously investing is one topic where it's so, so easy to get 80% of the head knowledge of very sophisticated and experienced experts with very little effort.  Those big broad ideas, like asset classes, diversification, controlling costs, etc. are not that hard to learn, but people are victims of the marketing machine.

Re: PERM etf / Browne PP gets a write up - A for innovation B- for strategy

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:37 pm
by lazyboy
Gosso wrote:
lazyboy wrote: I think it's a good idea to check several translations of the Tao Te Ching for comparison's sake. So far, after looking at a few I like the one I've had since the 1970s. It seems the most inspired and poetic of those I've looked at. I found it on Amazon. You can check out the inside and the reviews:  The Way of Life According to Lao Tzu translated by Witter Bynner  http://www.amazon.ca/The-Way-Life-Accor ... 571&sr=8-1

Of course I only spent $1.95 on it  :D
Too late  :)  But it does appear to be online, found here.

On Saturday I handed over $150 to Amazon so I can start building a decent library of "knowledge".  It included the following:
- The Bhagavad Gita
- The Way of Zen - Alan Watts
- The Jefferson Bible
- Tao Te Ching
- Power of Myth - Joe Campbell
- The Doors Of Perception And Heaven And Hell - Aldous Huxley
- Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas - Elaine Pagels
- LOTR - JRR Tolkien -- to give my brain an occasional break

I'm hoping this will give a good base to build on.


Ah, the internet can be a wonderful thing.  ;)