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Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:18 pm
by MediumTex
To me, talking about the PP to a group of CFA candidates would be like talking about a defensive driving course to a bunch of racecar drivers.

Although there are reasons not to use the PP (e.g., some people simply want to take more risk than the PP offers), I don't think that most of the criticisms leveled at the PP really have much rigor--it normally just seems to be off the cuff remarks about not liking one or more of the PP's assets.

I work with a bunch of CFAs (my firm does institutional asset management), so I know where they are coming from.  Normally, clients are paying CFAs for something more exotic and exciting than the PP.

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:54 pm
by KevinW
I would go further and say it's like talking about the merits of hiking boots as a mode of transport, to a bunch of race car drivers.

A good pair of boots will let you travel 3-4 mph, practically anywhere on earth, in practically any weather.  The only maintenance they require is polish, which any amateur can do themselves, and an occasional resole which any cobbler can do for you.

Which is totally uninteresting and ridiculous to the race drivers.  Boots don't have anywhere near enough horsepower to go 100+ mph.  There's no air/fuel ratio, shifting algorithm, wing downforce, or tire pressure to obsessively optimize.  The referees wrote rules that say rain, maintenance, and fuel shortages aren't problems, so it's paranoid to worry about those things.  And leather? A barbarous relic with no intrinsic value.

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:31 am
by Lone Wolf
MediumTex wrote: To me, talking about the PP to a group of CFA candidates would be like talking about a defensive driving course to a bunch of racecar drivers.
KevinW wrote: I would go further and say it's like talking about the merits of hiking boots as a mode of transport, to a bunch of race car drivers.
These are great analogies.  I look forward to the day when I forget where I heard them and wind up believing that I came up with them myself.  I am going to feel so smart.
KevinW wrote:And leather? A barbarous relic with no intrinsic value.
They say the same thing about my chaps.  Fools.

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:23 pm
by Bob
KevinW wrote: I would go further and say it's like talking about the merits of hiking boots as a mode of transport, to a bunch of race car drivers.

A good pair of boots will let you travel 3-4 mph, practically anywhere on earth, in practically any weather.  The only maintenance they require is polish, which any amateur can do themselves, and an occasional resole which any cobbler can do for you.

Which is totally uninteresting and ridiculous to the race drivers.  Boots don't have anywhere near enough horsepower to go 100+ mph.  There's no air/fuel ratio, shifting algorithm, wing downforce, or tire pressure to obsessively optimize.  The referees wrote rules that say rain, maintenance, and fuel shortages aren't problems, so it's paranoid to worry about those things.  And leather? A barbarous relic with no intrinsic value.
And to take the analogy a bit further, the race car driver ends up right where he started.  A few are richer (those that win and place in the top couple of spots) but others get in accidents, car malfunctions, and they may only make it around a few laps. But they still have the costs of their pit crew, repairs, maintenance, etc.  The hiker with the good pair of boots, makes it to his destination - it may take longer but he gets there.

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:44 pm
by amp
Even if you want to manage others' money using the PP, you'd need to know it inside and out and articulate how and why it performs the way it does in a variety of economic circumstances.  Unfortunately, I'm still far from that point in my knowledge of finance and economics.  Simply telling your clients you will equal weight their money into those 4 assets because it's performed well in the past or just quoting Harry Browne alone isn't gonna fly.

An important standard a CFA charterholder must abide by is Diligence and Reasonable Basis.  One can agree or disagree that the PP is a good choice for a particular person's investment goals as long as there's a reasonable and adequate basis backed by extensive research and analysis to support that stance.
Actually, I don't think there are too many advisors that can explain why any investment performs the way it does.  If they do, it's of the 6 o'clock news variety with no depth.  It's a sales business, financial and economic knowledge is icing on the cake, but not necessary (I'd bet it's actually a hindrance to be overly educated, it'd be harder to keep a straight face and say anything with certainty).

Past performance is really all you need and is how most products are sold.  If it's a new product, then it needs to be exotic and indescribable.

If you go down the road of explaining the various economic conditions that may be encountered, I think some clients will be looking for your crystal ball so you can tell them which PP asset will go up the most next year/month/hour.

And by the way, realtors have a "code of ethics" too...  ::)

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:48 pm
by MediumTex
amp wrote:
Even if you want to manage others' money using the PP, you'd need to know it inside and out and articulate how and why it performs the way it does in a variety of economic circumstances.  Unfortunately, I'm still far from that point in my knowledge of finance and economics.  Simply telling your clients you will equal weight their money into those 4 assets because it's performed well in the past or just quoting Harry Browne alone isn't gonna fly.

An important standard a CFA charterholder must abide by is Diligence and Reasonable Basis.  One can agree or disagree that the PP is a good choice for a particular person's investment goals as long as there's a reasonable and adequate basis backed by extensive research and analysis to support that stance.
Actually, I don't think there are too many advisors that can explain why any investment performs the way it does.  If they do, it's of the 6 o'clock news variety with no depth.  It's a sales business, financial and economic knowledge is icing on the cake, but not necessary (I'd bet it's actually a hindrance to be overly educated, it'd be harder to keep a straight face and say anything with certainty).

Past performance is really all you need and is how most products are sold.  If it's a new product, then it needs to be exotic and indescribable.

If you go down the road of explaining the various economic conditions that may be encountered, I think some clients will be looking for your crystal ball so you can tell them which PP asset will go up the most next year/month/hour.

And by the way, realtors have a "code of ethics" too...   ::)
When I was studying for the first CFA exam there were a lot of ethics-related topics covered.  I kept reading the material and thinking to myself "Oh, wow, it would be really cool if they actually did that."

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:32 pm
by amp

When I was studying for the first CFA exam there were a lot of ethics-related topics covered.  I kept reading the material and thinking to myself "Oh, wow, it would be really cool if they actually did that."
Cool?  You want cool?  Ok, how cool would it be if the US House of Representatives followed their Code of Conduct?  The first few had me laughing out loud, but I have to admit that #10 is my personal favorite:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blhousecode.htm

Guess being convicted of a crime with a sentence of less than 2 years is of no concern.  Move along... nothing to see here.  ::)

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:48 am
by blackomen
Good news: I passed!

Bad news: Level 2 is gonna be a bigger, meaner beast..

Image

Re: CFA Education - Is Knowledge Dangerous for the PP?

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:20 am
by Storm
MediumTex wrote: The key with many economic belief systems is to never look behind the curtain.  Once you look behind the curtain, one often sees carefully cultivated beliefs begin to disintegrate, which can be a disturbing and disorienting experience (especially for those who benefit most from a certain economic arrangement).
What a great post.  To take this a step further, I've found in my experience that once you learn how any business operates at a really deep level, it's not a very pleasant experience.  A quote about not wanting to see how sausage is made is relevant here.

In my personal line of work, technology, I've found that once you understand that the whole system is rigged - analysts are paid by the very companies whose products they review, and every single article you read in PC Magazine or Computerworld is basically advertising masquerading as journalism, you come away with a new skepticism for all aspects of the business.

I'm sure it is the same in the financial industry, or any other industry where money is to be made.