Gyroscopic Investing

Posted: **Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:13 pm**

I read somewhere that the IRS technically accepts 4th Quarter estimated tax payments after January 15th deadline. The difference is that the payments submitted before Jan 15 are counted towards preventing estimated tax penalties. I'm not a tax advisor, so I may be wrong about this, but it should be possible to overpay between January and March and still get a refund in April.

Posted: **Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:33 pm**

Gumby,

You are right... you can make payments at any time... I should have been more specific about that.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:28 am**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:39 am**

RFTH....

Your observation may be as good as the song your name sounds like it's based off of. I'll investigate when I get time.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:01 am**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:15 am**

There's a way to scam this system... I can feel it.

This was me a couple weeks ago. ahrun... you've confirmed my suspicion.

Thanks!

Assuming setting up 2 LLC's (one for your wife and one for yourself) is easy enough, this could expand the electronic limits back to what the pre-2012 elec/paper limits were.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:21 am**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:24 pm**

ahhrunforthehills wrote: Update: Treasury direct seemed to have no problems in letting me do $5k Personally, $5K for my wife, and $5k for one of my LLCs.

I also went to the bank for $15k in paper I Bonds. The girl behind the counter was very hesitant at first. But when she called downtown they apparently told her "as long as the SSNs are different, go ahead". So I paid, now let's see if anything comes in the mail

But so far, it seems like coughing up ~$100.00 to form some family planning LLCs might be the way to go for increasing the $5k limit going forward for those that are interested.

I have seen some people post that Trusts are also separate from individuals, even if they share the same SSN. So technically, someone that has a trust and an LLC would be eligible for $15k per year (5 individual, 5 for trust, and 5 for LLC). But don't quote me on it. You will also have to refer to the "entities" information on treasury direct for requirements:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/hel ... rnMore.htm

(Disclaimer: I am not your financial adviser, in fact, I am a college dropout Do your own due-diligence. Call a lawyer, CPA, CFP, CFA, MD for any STD, etc for accurate advice.)

Thanks for the update! This is very helpful information. I think one might be able to start several of their own investing LLCs and simply pay corporate taxes on the earnings. I'm not a tax expert, though, so do this at your own risk.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:30 pm**

ahhrun,

Make sure to let us know if Geitner and his goons come to arrest you, will you?

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:48 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:55 pm**

I really don't think people can hide their assets in LLC's without some legitimate business purpose just to keep them from being sued for those assets.

But I could be wrong.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:14 pm**

moda0306 wrote: I really don't think people can hide their assets in LLC's without some legitimate business purpose just to keep them from being sued for those assets.

But I could be wrong.

Yes, but an LLC's sole purpose could be to invest money and make a return. What's wrong with that? There's nothing hidden about it. Many hedge funds themselves are LLCs.

edit: Actually that's exactly what an LLC is for - "Limited Liability Corporation" - it is to limit the legal liability of the owners.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:23 pm**

Storm,

That "purpose" would be solely benefitting you... there's no business reason to house that activity within an LLC.

Otherwise wouldn't everone about to suffer from a huge court case just move all their wealth into an LLC?

Further, I'm quite sure LLC's work the opposite way, like this:

Widgets, LLC doesn't safely run its plant, and is sued after an injury for a loss large than the value of the company. Bob Widget is part owner and just loses his investment. They can't come after his personal assets.

- as opposed to -

Bob Widget, a co-owner of Widgets, LLC, commits a heinous crime when he catches his wife in bed with another man, allegedly. He loses the criminal trile, but her family sues for civil penalties and wins for greater than Bob's net worth. Bob Widget loses all qualfying assets. He will lose all his investments, and all his ownership in different businesses.

That's my take on how things work.

The LLC protection is for the investor in case that the business assets are not enough for a business lawsuit, not so Bob Widget can sail through life without ever losing anything to anyone, even if he is legitimately sued for horrible actions.

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:30 pm**

This does highlight a good point, though.

I am quite positive IRA's, Roth IRA's, 401(k)'s, HSA's, Pensions, etc, are insulated in the instances we're talking about... aka, even if you're OJ Simpson, civil penalties for murder can't pierce those assets.

This is a good reason to make sure you're pushing your wealth into these avenues, as long as we are making sure we're liquid enough (Roth's are good for this).

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:31 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:40 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:43 pm**

ahhrun,

You'd be the richest guy in the graveyard it sounds like!

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:44 pm**

PS,

WTF is "charging order?"

A family partnership might be good for moving assets to your children, but what keeps Nicole Browne-Simpson's family from coming right after your share of ownership.

Further, what keeps OJ for making a one-time gift to his kids after the murder of half of his wealth to keep it from being sued away from him after the civil trial?

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:16 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:23 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:33 pm**

So we know that our IRA's and other retirements, as assets themselves, are safe.

But are distributions subject to "garnishment?"

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:42 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:45 pm**

Posted: **Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:48 pm**

I think I have a $1 Million umbrella policy for $100 per year...

Posted: **Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:48 am**

moda0306 wrote: Storm,

That "purpose" would be solely benefitting you... there's no business reason to house that activity within an LLC.

Otherwise wouldn't everone about to suffer from a huge court case just move all their wealth into an LLC?

Further, I'm quite sure LLC's work the opposite way, like this:

Widgets, LLC doesn't safely run its plant, and is sued after an injury for a loss large than the value of the company. Bob Widget is part owner and just loses his investment. They can't come after his personal assets.

- as opposed to -

Bob Widget, a co-owner of Widgets, LLC, commits a heinous crime when he catches his wife in bed with another man, allegedly. He loses the criminal trile, but her family sues for civil penalties and wins for greater than Bob's net worth. Bob Widget loses all qualfying assets. He will lose all his investments, and all his ownership in different businesses.

That's my take on how things work.

The LLC protection is for the investor in case that the business assets are not enough for a business lawsuit, not so Bob Widget can sail through life without ever losing anything to anyone, even if he is legitimately sued for horrible actions.

That's exactly what I was saying Moda. The LLC protects the owners from legal liability for actions made by the company. An LLC doesn't give you the right to commit crimes or any such thing on your own.

For investment purposes, the LLC limits the liability for investment losses to the assets of the company. For example, if your LLC was trading on margin or using leverage, presumably a negative event could force the LLC into bankruptcy, but the creditors could not touch your personal assets that were outside the LLC.

Gyroscopic Investing

Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012

Re: Paper I Bonds no longer available in 2012