The American Flag

[yankees60]

Dallas Mavericks Owner Mark Cuban Stops Playing the National Anthem at Home Games

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/da ... d=msedgntp

Educate me again why the national anthem must be played at sporting events.

Why isn't it played at the start of business for wherever everyone here works?

Why doesn't it get played before all musical entertainment events?

Why doesn't it get played at the beginning of every school day?

Why don't we all play it the first thing out of bed in the morning?

Why .............................

I wouldn't mind having the Jimi Hendrix version as my alarm sound in the morning but that's just me.

Here is the back story you wanted - Looks like a tradition going back over 100 years - comradery and patriotism

The tradition of singing the national anthem at sporting events began during the 1918 World Series. During the seventh-inning stretch of the first game between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs, the band began to play The Star-Spangled Banner (it was not the official national anthem at that time). Players turned to face the centerfield flagpole, and fans, who were already on their feet, began to sing along. By the end, nearly the entire stadium was singing, and the song ended to a chorus of thunderous applause.

At the time, World War I was nearing an end. Singing The Star-Spangled Banner that day was a well-timed display of comradery and patriotism. Harry Frazee, then owner of the Red Sox, subsequently began each other game of the series by having the band play the song.

The playing of The Star-Spangled Banner before games became such a hit, that after the war ended, the song continued to be played at baseball games. However, it was mainly reserved for notable occasions, like holidays, opening day, and the World Series.

During World War II, the song became even more popular, as it was a way for large crowds to show their patriotism. Additionally, advances in technology meant that the song could be played over speaker systems instead of requiring a band, making it easier to incorporate into games. By the time the war had ended, The Star-Spangled Banner had shifted from an exclusively baseball tradition, and quickly spread to other sporting events.

1) In 1970 I formed a "long hair" softball team. My goal was to play that Hendrix Woodstock version of the national anthem before our games.

2) I am old enough to remember when all TV and radio broadcasts of baseball games included the playing of the national anthem. However, after they finally realized that was using up valuable commercial time they stopped allowing us to hear it. Now, it's a rare event when I will either see on TV or hear on radio the national anthem being played before the start of a baseball game.

[InsuranceGuy]

[deleted]

[Lonestar]

[

At the time, World War I was nearing an end. Singing The Star-Spangled Banner that day was a well-timed display of comradery and patriotism. Harry Frazee, then owner of the Red Sox, subsequently began each other game of the series by having the band play the song.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem? It's what causes some to become a little emotional when it's played.

If we are so divided as a nation at this time, and we have little love and appreciation for our country, maybe we do need to scrap it. I wonder how many of those fighting in two world wars to keep our country free, were they here today, would be finding logical reasons why some have the right to burn the flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. I suspect not many.

I'm old enough to remember when we had just a couple of tv stations in most towns, and they did not broadcast on a 24 hour basis. When they logged off each night they would play the National Anthem and show the American flag. I guess we did not realize at the time how offensive that was.

[GT]

[

At the time, World War I was nearing an end. Singing The Star-Spangled Banner that day was a well-timed display of comradery and patriotism. Harry Frazee, then owner of the Red Sox, subsequently began each other game of the series by having the band play the song.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem? It's what causes some to become a little emotional when it's played.

If we are so divided as a nation at this time, and we have little love and appreciation for our country, maybe we do need to scrap it. I wonder how many of those fighting in two world wars to keep our country free, were they here today, would be finding logical reasons why some have the right to burn the flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. I suspect not many.

I'm old enough to remember when we had just a couple of tv stations in most towns, and they did not broadcast on a 24 hour basis. When they logged off each night they would play the National Anthem and show the American flag. I guess we did not realize at the time how offensive that was.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem?

Agree - took me a while to get over Rosanne performing the "funny" parody version of the Anthem years ago.....

[glennds]

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem? It's what causes some to become a little emotional when it's played.

If we are so divided as a nation at this time, and we have little love and appreciation for our country, maybe we do need to scrap it. I wonder how many of those fighting in two world wars to keep our country free, were they here today, would be finding logical reasons why some have the right to burn the flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. I suspect not many.

I'm old enough to remember when we had just a couple of tv stations in most towns, and they did not broadcast on a 24 hour basis. When they logged off each night they would play the National Anthem and show the American flag. I guess we did not realize at the time how offensive that was.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem?

Agree - took me a while to get over Rosanne performing the "funny" parody version of the Anthem years ago.....

How do you feel about it when various musical artists put their own interpretation on the national anthem?

I'm not talking parody like what Roseanne did, but more along the lines of musical creativity like say Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye in 1983, or Jose Feliciano.
Feliciano in particular took a lot of heat in 1968 for his rendition that reimagined the national anthem in his signature latin/jazzy sound. There were people who found it decidedly unpatriotic to take artistic license with something as sacred as the national anthem, and there were calls for him to be deported. Others seem to feel there is nothing unpatriotic whatsoever about musical re-interpretation of the national anthem.
Where do board participants here stand?

[yankees60]

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem? It's what causes some to become a little emotional when it's played.

If we are so divided as a nation at this time, and we have little love and appreciation for our country, maybe we do need to scrap it. I wonder how many of those fighting in two world wars to keep our country free, were they here today, would be finding logical reasons why some have the right to burn the flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. I suspect not many.

I'm old enough to remember when we had just a couple of tv stations in most towns, and they did not broadcast on a 24 hour basis. When they logged off each night they would play the National Anthem and show the American flag. I guess we did not realize at the time how offensive that was.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem?

Agree - took me a while to get over Rosanne performing the "funny" parody version of the Anthem years ago.....

How do you feel about it when various musical artists put their own interpretation on the national anthem?

I'm not talking parody like what Roseanne did, but more along the lines of musical creativity like say Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye in 1983, or Jose Feliciano.
Feliciano in particular took a lot of heat in 1968 for his rendition that reimagined the national anthem in his signature latin/jazzy sound. There were people who found it decidedly unpatriotic and there were calls for him to be deported. Others seem to feel there is nothing unpatriotic whatsoever about musical re-interpretation of the national anthem.
Where do board participants here stand?

Of course I love them.

Liked the Hendrix version the first time I heard it.

Hearing this Carlos Santana version for the first time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gpVxE22qj8

And, here is another version by him that I had prior seen. In this one he is accompanied by his wife playing drums. I like this one more than the other version by him above.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ca ... &FORM=VIRE

Yet another Carlos Santana version with his wife:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ca ... &FORM=VIRE

Finally:

A Tale of Two National Anthems: See Who Rocked (and Who Flubbed) the Star Spangled Banner Over the Weekend
PEOPLE.com


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ca ... M%3DVDMHRS

[GT]

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem? It's what causes some to become a little emotional when it's played.

If we are so divided as a nation at this time, and we have little love and appreciation for our country, maybe we do need to scrap it. I wonder how many of those fighting in two world wars to keep our country free, were they here today, would be finding logical reasons why some have the right to burn the flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. I suspect not many.

I'm old enough to remember when we had just a couple of tv stations in most towns, and they did not broadcast on a 24 hour basis. When they logged off each night they would play the National Anthem and show the American flag. I guess we did not realize at the time how offensive that was.

Is not comradery and patriotism the main reason for any playing of our National Anthem?

Agree - took me a while to get over Rosanne performing the "funny" parody version of the Anthem years ago.....

How do you feel about it when various musical artists put their own interpretation on the national anthem?

I'm not talking parody like what Roseanne did, but more along the lines of musical creativity like say Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye in 1983, or Jose Feliciano.
Feliciano in particular took a lot of heat in 1968 for his rendition that reimagined the national anthem in his signature latin/jazzy sound. There were people who found it decidedly unpatriotic to take artistic license with something as sacred as the national anthem, and there were calls for him to be deported. Others seem to feel there is nothing unpatriotic whatsoever about musical re-interpretation of the national anthem.
Where do board participants here stand?

I didn't hate any of them - except the Rosanne one - Some I liked better than others due to my personal preference - or maybe the mood I was in at the time. As long as it is done with respect

[Kriegsspiel]

IMO, the highest standard for national anthems was 16 year-old Demi Lovato, 2008 Cowboys-Eagles football game. I sometimes get something caught in my eye when I hear it.

[Lonestar]

I'm like GT, I have my preference but as long as it's done with respect, and with the right attitude, far be it for me to judge. I'm still just amazed that in my lifetime we have come to such a level of disrespect for our country, and it's symbols, the flag and anthem. Also, I'm still having a difficult time trying to figure out why publicly showing these various forms of disrespect is supposed to solve the many perceived injustices.

[Tortoise]

I always figured the national anthem is played at big sports events because sports are symbolic of war, and war tends to involve nation-states. The court or field represents the battlefield, and the players represent the soldiers. Expressions like "Team A slaughtered Team B" highlight the war symbolism.

Playing the national anthem before big sports events in America could be viewed as a way of effectively saying, "Although we're cheering for opposing 'soldiers' in this symbolic 'war', let's not forget that ultimately all of us here are on team USA."

[yankees60]

I always figured the national anthem is played at big sports events because sports are symbolic of war, and war tends to involve nation-states. The court or field represents the battlefield, and the players represent the soldiers. Expressions like "Team A slaughtered Team B" highlight the war symbolism.

Playing the national anthem before big sports events in America could be viewed as a way of effectively saying, "Although we're cheering for opposing 'soldiers' in this symbolic 'war', let's not forget that ultimately all of us here are on team USA."

You must not go to many sports events?

It is played before many, many, many sports events. I'm almost certain before all MLB / NFL / NHL / NBA games. All college basketball games. Don't know about the other college sports. When I used to go to see six Western Massachusetts high school basketball finals all played the same day in the same gym I'd hear that national anthem six times that day!

[Tortoise]

You're right, I don't go to many sports events.

I guess strike the word "big" from my previous post, but otherwise everything I said still applies.

[yankees60]

From a daily newsletter I am reading...

Vinny


Over the years � especially since 9/11 � patriotism at sportirting events has been transformed from something most Americans demonstrate out of natural national pride and personal motivation to something more . . . performative. Often, something de rigueur. Unquestionably more political. There is an element of opportunism at play as well. We saw that with the pay-for-patriotism scandal from a few of years ago in which it was revealed that the government had paid teams to promote patriotic and pro-military initiatives for propaganda and recruitment purposes. Corporate sponsorship has seeped into patriotic activities as well. I still remember back when I covered the 2014 World Series and saw that the American flags given out at the ballpark entrances were “presented by Bank of America, the Official Bank of Major League Baseball.” Hell, there are rankings of which brands best-leverage patriotism for commercial purposes. There are many examples of this sort of thing.

Since Colin Kaepernick’s protests of police brutality began several years ago the national anthem has become something else entirely. An appropriate time and place of protest for some. A vehicle for smearing those who would protest injustice for others. And, last summer, a way for sports leagues to co-opt and/or spin and control protests in such a way that works for the leagues’ public relations interests. At times it seems so damn complicated. It makes one pine for the days when the most controversial thing about the anthem was how some young pop star mangled it while trying to turn a song that is, essentially, a march, into a slow jam. I don’t know where Mark Cuban falls on the “to protest or not to protest during the national anthem” spectrum, but I can understand someone in his position just saying “this is all so dumb and so removed from any organic purpose anymore that I just don’t wanna bother.” Which is apparently what happened thirteen games ago in Dallas.

And now the shit show.

Once The Athletic report came out, the usual right wing culture warriors came out of the woodwork to excoriate Cuban for hating America. And the Dallas Stars hockey team decided to chime the hell in despite the fact that nobody asked them. Which meant that, before sundown yesterday, a somewhat rational decision to give reflexive patriotism a break for a time snapped right back into a reductive “if you’re not maximally and comically over-the-top patriotic, you hate America” rebop. Which, folks, I’ve had experience with. To the point where I got death threats over it.

Late yesterday afternoon the NBA issued a statement that, while not mentioning the Dallas Mavericks, was clearly aimed at the Dallas Mavericks:

“With NBA teams now in the process of welcoming fans back into their arenas, all teams will play the national anthem in keeping with longstanding league policy.”

Reducing what was originally intended to be an impassioned invocation of patriotic sentiment during a time of national strife to “league policy” sounds about right for this country at this time.

Either way, Cuban has relented. He had a lot to say as he relented, but he did. And it’s hard to blame him, as no one wants or needs to be the star of the right-wing media outrage cycle for several days. Still all rather chilling and rather depressing. There is absolutely no room for discussion in American sports culture for this. There is no way to ratchet-back performative patriotism at sporting events once it is ratcheted-up.