Gyroscopic Investing

Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General William Barr said Tuesday the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

His comments in an interview with The Associated Press come despite President Donald Trump’s repeated baseless claims that the election was stolen, Trump’s effort to subvert the results of the 2020 presidential election and his refusal to concede his loss to President-Elect Joe Biden.

Barr said U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but they’ve uncovered no evidence that would change the outcome of the election. Barr was headed to the White House later for a previously scheduled meeting.

“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.

The comments are especially direct coming from Barr, who has been one of the president’s most ardent allies. Before the election, he had repeatedly raised the notion that mail-in voter fraud could be especially vulnerable to fraud during the coronavirus pandemic as Americans feared going to polls and instead chose to vote by mail.

From here...
https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... 61a6c7f49d

Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:09 pm Disputing Trump, Barr says no widespread election fraud

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attorney General William Barr said Tuesday the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

His comments in an interview with The Associated Press come despite President Donald Trump’s repeated baseless claims that the election was stolen, Trump’s effort to subvert the results of the 2020 presidential election and his refusal to concede his loss to President-Elect Joe Biden.

Barr said U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but they’ve uncovered no evidence that would change the outcome of the election. Barr was headed to the White House later for a previously scheduled meeting.

“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.

The comments are especially direct coming from Barr, who has been one of the president’s most ardent allies. Before the election, he had repeatedly raised the notion that mail-in voter fraud could be especially vulnerable to fraud during the coronavirus pandemic as Americans feared going to polls and instead chose to vote by mail.

From here...
https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... 61a6c7f49d

And tomorrow watch Trump say those magical words to Barr... "you're fired!"

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:18 pm
And tomorrow watch Trump say those magical words to Barr... "you're fired!"

That will be interesting to see if it happens. And what excuses will be generated as to why Barr suddenly becomes persona non-grata and a never-Trumper.

SomeDude, we aren't 100% off the rails, we are presenting people in respectable places that believe fraud is not widespread....

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:37 pm
IMO there is enough information and bizarre anomalies to question the results of the 2020 Presidential election. The volume seems off the charts compared to elections in the past.

Congrats FP, you must have an IQ over 50.

I can't believe you don't see how Biden is the most popular political figure in American History, so inspirational.

I know, I know, so many people were fed up with DRUMPF that they came out against him, except no one came out against him and republicans voted in droves for him, as well as for other Republicans. He lost the "mail-in" votes about 99 to 1. I'm sure it was all above board, for sure!

I said it before, if you state that Biden won this election either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the details
2. you are a victim of TDS
3. you are trolling, and it's working. Everyone is feeding you.

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:31 pm

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:37 pm
IMO there is enough information and bizarre anomalies to question the results of the 2020 Presidential election. The volume seems off the charts compared to elections in the past.

Congrats FP, you must have an IQ over 50.

I can't believe you don't see how Biden is the most popular political figure in American History, so inspirational.

I know, I know, so many people were fed up with DRUMPF that they came out against him, except no one came out against him and republicans voted in droves for him, as well as for other Republicans. He lost the "mail-in" votes about 99 to 1. I'm sure it was all above board, for sure!

I said it before, if you state that Biden won this election either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the details
2. you are a victim of TDS
3. you are trolling, and it's working. Everyone is feeding you.

Quite the narrow list of options!

Vinny

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:31 pm

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:37 pm
IMO there is enough information and bizarre anomalies to question the results of the 2020 Presidential election. The volume seems off the charts compared to elections in the past.

Congrats FP, you must have an IQ over 50.

I can't believe you don't see how Biden is the most popular political figure in American History, so inspirational.

I know, I know, so many people were fed up with DRUMPF that they came out against him, except no one came out against him and republicans voted in droves for him, as well as for other Republicans. He lost the "mail-in" votes about 99 to 1. I'm sure it was all above board, for sure!

I said it before, if you state that Biden won this election either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the details
2. you are a victim of TDS
3. you are trolling, and it's working. Everyone is feeding you.

So the top law enforcement officer in the country, a republican and Trump supporter, and privy to all the goings on in every state at every level comes out and says what he does about fraud, and your response is.....pfffttt?

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:37 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:31 pm

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:37 pm
IMO there is enough information and bizarre anomalies to question the results of the 2020 Presidential election. The volume seems off the charts compared to elections in the past.

Congrats FP, you must have an IQ over 50.

I can't believe you don't see how Biden is the most popular political figure in American History, so inspirational.

I know, I know, so many people were fed up with DRUMPF that they came out against him, except no one came out against him and republicans voted in droves for him, as well as for other Republicans. He lost the "mail-in" votes about 99 to 1. I'm sure it was all above board, for sure!

I said it before, if you state that Biden won this election either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the details
2. you are a victim of TDS
3. you are trolling, and it's working. Everyone is feeding you.

So the top law enforcement officer in the country, a republican and Trump supporter, and privy to all the goings on in every state at every level comes out and says what he does about fraud, and your response is.....pfffttt?

Doesn't the response have to be that Barr needs to make a choice from one of the above three? Anyone have his personal email address so we can present those choices to him, ask him to let us know his answer so that it can then reported back here?

Vinny

Trump’s legal team’s response to Barr’s statement:

With all due respect to the Attorney General, there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in at least six states, which they have not examined. We have many witnesses swearing under oath they saw crimes being committed in connection with voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn’t audited any voting machines or used their subpoena powers to determine the truth.

Nonetheless, we will continue our pursuit of the truth through the judicial system and state legislatures, and continue toward the Constitution’s mandate and ensuring that every legal vote is counted and every illegal vote is not. Again, with the greatest respect to the Attorney General, his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/stat ... ter-fraud/

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

Yes, I am sure Barr loves to just throw random thoughts that are floating around in his brain to the media without having a good sense of what's going on. Sounds like someone, but not Barr.

If I get any vibe from Barr, he is a 4D chess, look 30 moves ahead kind of guy.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:51 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

Yes, I am sure Barr loves to just throw random thoughts that are floating around in his brain to the media without having a good sense of what's going on. Sounds like someone, but not Barr.

If I get any vibe from Barr, he is a 4D chess, look 30 moves ahead kind of guy.

Barr is worth than worthless. He showed that with all the BLM antifa nonsense refusing to prosecute any of these "mostly peaceful" protestors.

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:31 pm I said it before, if you state that Biden won this election either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the details
2. you are a victim of TDS
3. you are trolling, and it's working. Everyone is feeding you.

I've asked you time and time again for real credible evidence. You've failed to bring that forward. So the ball is in your court man. If this evidence is so strong it should speak for itself right? So, since you make baseless claims that cannot be backed by credible evidence, I think that means either:

1. you have not looked at ANY of the credible details
2. you are a victim of THS (tinfoil hat syndrome)
3. you are trolling

Personally I vote for all the above.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm Trump’s legal team’s response to Barr’s statement:

With all due respect to the Attorney General, there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in at least six states, which they have not examined. We have many witnesses swearing under oath they saw crimes being committed in connection with voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn’t audited any voting machines or used their subpoena powers to determine the truth.

Nonetheless, we will continue our pursuit of the truth through the judicial system and state legislatures, and continue toward the Constitution’s mandate and ensuring that every legal vote is counted and every illegal vote is not. Again, with the greatest respect to the Attorney General, his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/stat ... ter-fraud/

As has been stated over and over, "officials" ignoring evidence, is not the same as "no evidence".

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:10 pm As has been stated over and over, "officials" ignoring evidence, is not the same as "no evidence".

"Officials" do not ignore "evidence" when it is real and non-refutable. If they "ignored" the "evidence" it's because it was low quality BS. For example, complaints about machines when the hand vote recount verified the result.

So we have gotten to the crux of the issue.

There will be no satisfying some people. Just like those who still believe we didn't land on the moon, even a new mission, landing right next to the Apollo 11 site and beaming live video will flat out not be believed by some.

No matter if you are the attorney general. You may have been praised in the past, but now you are worthless.

No matter Krebs. You may have an impeccable security resume, but you are now fired for saying the wrong thing.

I lived with the conspiracy bullshit for a few years. Not worth it. Have fun with it.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:20 pm
No matter if you are the attorney general. You may have been praised in the past, but now you are worthless.

Right, weren't these same people praising Barr like 5 weeks ago and sharing his quotes and opinion on mail-in voting as if it were the gospel? And now that his view contradicts Trump suddenly Barr is assumed to be the liar? What does Barr gain by suddenly joining the "conspiracy" against Trump now in the 9th inning? Just like the moment Krebs view contradicted Trump Krebs was assumed to be the liar? How many other people has Trump fired in the last 4 years just because they expressed a view that was different than his? Have we become China? Where the leader is considered the sole source of truth and anybody who states otherwise is a liar and a traitor?

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:51 pm If I get any vibe from Barr, he is a 4D chess, look 30 moves ahead kind of guy.

If Trump's legal team's assertion that "there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation" is true, and if Barr is a 4D chess kind of guy, what do you think he's currently trying to accomplish by avoiding a full investigation?

Is it possible that Barr, although his words and actions have often benefited Trump, is after all a politician whose loyalties may sometimes change in response to the direction in which the political winds are blowing?

Is it possible that Barr considered the two possible outcomes -- a Biden presidency or a Trump presidency -- and after imagining the worst-case scenario in both cases, decided that even if fraud likely handed the election to Biden, he didn't want to step into a political minefield by using the DOJ's authority to fully investigate and possibly overturn the result?

In other words, what happens if fraud indeed changed the outcome, but Biden is allowed to be President? A lot of pissed off conservatives and probably various long-term political battles, but probably not immediate widespread rioting by conservatives. But what happens if the fraud is pursued and the election is ultimately handed back to Trump? Almost certainly immediate widespread rioting by leftists.

Is it possible that Barr simply chose the path that likely results in the smaller immediate shitstorm of riots?

I can't read Barr's mind. I'm just trying to consider likely motivations for his failing to conduct a full investigation.

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:10 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm Trump’s legal team’s response to Barr’s statement:

With all due respect to the Attorney General, there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in at least six states, which they have not examined. We have many witnesses swearing under oath they saw crimes being committed in connection with voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn’t audited any voting machines or used their subpoena powers to determine the truth.

Nonetheless, we will continue our pursuit of the truth through the judicial system and state legislatures, and continue toward the Constitution’s mandate and ensuring that every legal vote is counted and every illegal vote is not. Again, with the greatest respect to the Attorney General, his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/stat ... ter-fraud/

As has been stated over and over, "officials" ignoring evidence, is not the same as "no evidence".

It appears that what you are proposing, is the existence of a national/global conspiracy to deprive Trump of reelection that must at this point include most election officials in the states Trump is complaining about, including both Democrats and Republicans, the entirety of the judiciary at both the state and Federal level again including judges from both parties, some of whom were appointed by Trump, the Department of Justice, the FBI and Donald Trump's own Attorney General, in Georgia pretty much the entire state election apparatus, which is overseen by Republicans including a GOP governor and secretary of state, and every single reliable news outlet in this country and globally.

It's time to be blunt here. Either you actually believe this drivel, or you are some some sort of provocateur / internet troll. Assuming the former, then all that can be said is that your beliefs are so far outside the bounds of factual evidence and reason that debating with you has become the political equivalent to arguing whether the Earth is round or flat. And clearly there is no argument or evidence that will persuade you that the world is in fact, round. If the latter then that sort of speaks for itself. Either way this debate has altogether ceased to be productive.

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating. Trumpism is not a movement or a philosophy. It is a cult.

Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:34 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:10 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm Trump’s legal team’s response to Barr’s statement:

With all due respect to the Attorney General, there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in at least six states, which they have not examined. We have many witnesses swearing under oath they saw crimes being committed in connection with voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn’t audited any voting machines or used their subpoena powers to determine the truth.

Nonetheless, we will continue our pursuit of the truth through the judicial system and state legislatures, and continue toward the Constitution’s mandate and ensuring that every legal vote is counted and every illegal vote is not. Again, with the greatest respect to the Attorney General, his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/stat ... ter-fraud/

As has been stated over and over, "officials" ignoring evidence, is not the same as "no evidence".

It appears that what you are proposing, is the existence of a national/global conspiracy to deprive Trump of reelection that must at this point include most election officials in the states Trump is complaining about, including both Democrats and Republicans, the entirety of the judiciary at both the state and Federal level again including judges from both parties, some of whom were appointed by Trump, the Department of Justice, the FBI and Donald Trump's own Attorney General, in Georgia pretty much the entire state election apparatus, which is overseen by Republicans including a GOP governor and secretary of state, and every single reliable news outlet in this country and globally.

It's time to be blunt here. Either you actually believe this drivel, or you are some some sort of provocateur / internet troll. Assuming the former, then all that can be said is that your beliefs are so far outside the bounds of factual evidence and reason that debating with you has become the political equivalent to arguing whether the Earth is round or flat. And clearly there is no argument or evidence that will persuade you that the world is in fact, round. If the latter then that sort of speaks for itself. Either way this debate has altogether ceased to be productive.

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating. Trumpism is not a movement or a philosophy. It is a cult.

*slow clap*

Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:34 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:10 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:45 pm Trump’s legal team’s response to Barr’s statement:

With all due respect to the Attorney General, there hasn’t been any semblance of a Department of Justice investigation. We have gathered ample evidence of illegal voting in at least six states, which they have not examined. We have many witnesses swearing under oath they saw crimes being committed in connection with voter fraud. As far as we know, not a single one has been interviewed by the DOJ. The Justice Department also hasn’t audited any voting machines or used their subpoena powers to determine the truth.

Nonetheless, we will continue our pursuit of the truth through the judicial system and state legislatures, and continue toward the Constitution’s mandate and ensuring that every legal vote is counted and every illegal vote is not. Again, with the greatest respect to the Attorney General, his opinion appears to be without any knowledge or investigation of the substantial irregularities and evidence of systemic fraud.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/stat ... ter-fraud/

As has been stated over and over, "officials" ignoring evidence, is not the same as "no evidence".

It appears that what you are proposing, is the existence of a national/global conspiracy to deprive Trump of reelection that must at this point include most election officials in the states Trump is complaining about, including both Democrats and Republicans, the entirety of the judiciary at both the state and Federal level again including judges from both parties, some of whom were appointed by Trump, the Department of Justice, the FBI and Donald Trump's own Attorney General, in Georgia pretty much the entire state election apparatus, which is overseen by Republicans including a GOP governor and secretary of state, and every single reliable news outlet in this country and globally.

It's time to be blunt here. Either you actually believe this drivel, or you are some some sort of provocateur / internet troll. Assuming the former, then all that can be said is that your beliefs are so far outside the bounds of factual evidence and reason that debating with you has become the political equivalent to arguing whether the Earth is round or flat. And clearly there is no argument or evidence that will persuade you that the world is in fact, round. If the latter then that sort of speaks for itself. Either way this debate has altogether ceased to be productive.

I have said this before, but it is worth repeating. Trumpism is not a movement or a philosophy. It is a cult.

It somewhat parallels those Kennedy assassination beliefs that just about everyone in the world was involved except for you and me!

Vinny

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:12 pm "Officials" do not ignore "evidence" when it is real and non-refutable. If they "ignored" the "evidence" it's because it was low quality BS.

What evidence do you have for this claim?

Why do I keep seeing forum members claim that this is all about the cult of Trump? It's bigger than that.

I voted for Trump in this election, but to me this unconstitutional (and likely also fraudulent) election is much bigger than Trump or Biden.

I don't think four years of a Biden presidency would destroy the republic. We've had plenty of shitty presidents over the years, and our republic has managed to survive. It can survive Biden and Harris, too.

But this seems to be the first time we've seen potential election fraud on such a large scale, due in large part to the unconstitutional introduction of universal mail-in ballots and election rule changes in key swing states. Those states bypassed their legislatures and thus clearly violated the U.S. Constitution. (Hopefully SCOTUS recognizes that.)

If we fail to uphold the Constitution in this case, it endangers our republic by removing even more teeth from its foundational document.

And if fraud also rigged the election, and we don't fully investigate to flush out the rot, it will continue to spread with a vengeance. It will embolden those who committed the fraud, and they will commit even more of it in future elections. That will also endanger our republic -- far more than four years of one crappy president ever could.

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:12 pm "Officials" do not ignore "evidence" when it is real and non-refutable. If they "ignored" the "evidence" it's because it was low quality BS.

What evidence do you have for this claim?

See my comment above.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm Why do I keep seeing forum members claim that this is all about the cult of Trump? It's bigger than that.

Because they have no evidence Biden is the most popular political figure in history, especially in some of the key swing states. Literally no evidence.

Also, stage 4 TDS.

I have to disagree on one point my reptilian friend. The Republic probably cannot survive Harris-biden. This is not just "a crappy president". This is a criminal conspiracy to take over the US government by gangsters, many of which are probably international. I think Tech pointed out like you did, they will change the rules so they never lose again.

If they won by fraud, who is going to prevent fraud in the future? Communists do not like to compete for votes or the consent of their slaves.

This is deadly serious business. I promise you that smiling old man is controlled by people plotting lots of death and destruction around the world. Trump was a peacemaker and that is something they couldn't tolerate any more.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm Why do I keep seeing forum members claim that this is all about the cult of Trump? It's bigger than that.

I voted for Trump in this election, but to me this unconstitutional (and likely also fraudulent) election is much bigger than Trump or Biden.

I don't think four years of a Biden presidency would destroy the republic. We've had plenty of shitty presidents over the years, and our republic has managed to survive. It can survive Biden and Harris, too.

But this seems to be the first time we've seen potential election fraud on such a large scale, due in large part to the unconstitutional introduction of universal mail-in ballots and election rule changes in key swing states. Those states bypassed their legislatures and thus clearly violated the U.S. Constitution. (Hopefully SCOTUS recognizes that.)

If we fail to uphold the Constitution in this case, it endangers our republic by removing even more teeth from its foundational document.

And if fraud also rigged the election, and we don't fully investigate to flush out the rot, it will continue to spread with a vengeance. It will embolden those who committed the fraud, and they will commit even more of it in future elections. That will also endanger our republic -- far more than four years of one crappy president ever could.

No it was not unconstitutional. Many states, including here in AZ, have had mail in voting for years. AZ has been a tried and true Republican state through all those years, even with mail in voting. We've already discussed at length the reasons why AZ flipped blue, so I won't go back into that again... suffice to say "the times they are a' changin'" here in AZ.

You can read this thread here where we dissect a judges commentary on the subject of a state "violating it's own laws" for mail in voting in PA. I highly recommend you read the actual legal document Tech posted, as in it the judge specifically mentions that to throw out all mail in votes because of this violation would effectively be taking away the right to vote of millions of PA residents. Also glenn posted the actual ruling, which came down later in the day and ruled against Trump. I think these credible sources refute all of your claims on mail in voting: https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/for ... 15&t=11567

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:04 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm Why do I keep seeing forum members claim that this is all about the cult of Trump? It's bigger than that.

Because they have no evidence Biden is the most popular political figure in history, especially in some of the key swing states. Literally no evidence.

Also, stage 4 TDS.

I have to disagree on one point my reptilian friend. The Republic probably cannot survive Harris-biden. This is not just "a crappy president". This is a criminal conspiracy to take over the US government by gangsters, many of which are probably international. I think Tech pointed out, they will change the rules so they never lose again.

If they won by fraud, who is going to prevent fraud in the future? Communists do not like to compete for votes or the consent of their slaves.

This is deadly serious business. I promise you that smiling old man is controlled by people plotting lots of death and destruction around the world. Trump was a peacemaker and that is something they couldn't tolerate any more.

Wow... just wow... somebody drank the Kool-Aide...