Gyroscopic Investing

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:41 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:26 am Kitchen appliances have upgraded their looks and connectivity, but not their basic functions in many years. If you don’t care about the first two there is no reason to upgrade unless you are redoing your kitchen and need a different form factor.

Well, depending on how old your appliances are, they might have gotten a lot more efficient and you could quickly start saving money that way.

Speaking of things that aren't exactly stores of value, but improve your resource flow, insulation is a big one.

Re new appliances. Based on my refrigerator and dishwasher experiences, I am sure I'm saving money on electricity and water consumption, and the cooling and cleaning ability is respectfully great ... but the appliance reliability is a HUGE crappola! KitchenAid fridge new in 2014 ... multiple repairs under warranty which they finally gave me a new fridge, no charge. It too has had multiple repairs, every few months ice builds up under bottom fridge tray, under warranty. Not sure what I'll do when warranty expires. KitchenAid dishwasher required new pump and valve assembly - $517 after about 6 months out of warranty (but thanks to the Costco Citi Visa card extended warranty which is a no cost benefit with the card, City refunded the entire repair cost). If you have an old fridge and dishwasher, I'd recommend fixing as long as possible, the new stuff of almost any brand, per my appliance repair guy, is crap due to the various government regulations.

Edited to correct dishwasher repair cost charge; I confused it with something else on my original post.

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:24 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:41 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:26 am Kitchen appliances have upgraded their looks and connectivity, but not their basic functions in many years. If you don’t care about the first two there is no reason to upgrade unless you are redoing your kitchen and need a different form factor.

Well, depending on how old your appliances are, they might have gotten a lot more efficient and you could quickly start saving money that way.

Speaking of things that aren't exactly stores of value, but improve your resource flow, insulation is a big one.

Re new appliances. Based on my refrigerator and dishwasher experiences, I am sure I'm saving money on electricity and water consumption, and the cooling and cleaning ability is respectfully great ... but the appliance reliability is a HUGE crappola! KitchenAid fridge new in 2014 ... multiple repairs under warranty which they finally gave me a new fridge, no charge. It too has had multiple repairs, every few months ice builds up under bottom fridge tray, under warranty. Not sure what I'll do when warranty expires. KitchenAid dishwasher required new pump and valve assembly, parts under warranty but not labor - $388 after about one and a half years. If you have an old fridge and dishwasher, I'd recommend fixing as long as possible, the new stuff of almost any brand, per my appliance repair guy, is crap due to the various government regulations.

So you ARE endorsing my 26 year old refrigerator and even older washing machine! I detailed the washing machine costs and repairs above. Never spent a cent on repairs for the refrigerator. But it is on its last legs and will finally be replaced soon.

Have never owned a clothes dryer. Either use the great outdoors or when too cold everything gets hung around my living room for a few days.

Also, never owned a dishwasher. My two hands do just fine at washing dishes!

Vinny

I doubt gas ranges are any more efficient than old ones, but for sure refrigerators are - good point.

Energy efficient dishwashers, though, are nothing more than a sleight of hand. I purposely avoided energy star when I got mine. Energy star means having to use rinse aid and high water temps because otherwise the dishes don't get clean or dry. Well, rinse aid costs and takes energy to produce, bottle, transport etc. And you have the bottle to dispose of afterwards. I got a cheap GE with heated dry. Works great.

Anything that works by converting energy to heat is 100% efficient (by definition).

Refrigerators are a different story.

I’m still intrigued by Maddie’s suggestion to convert a chest freezer into a fridge. That sounds like it would work really well.

WiseOne wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:13 pm I doubt gas ranges are any more efficient than old ones, but for sure refrigerators are - good point.

Yea, something like a gas range I think going for as simple and durable as possible is the smartest thing. I don't understand the $15,000 Viking thing or whatever the fancy ones are. I like how some Japanese just have a simple canister-powered gas burner on their countertop.

Energy efficient dishwashers, though, are nothing more than a sleight of hand. I purposely avoided energy star when I got mine. Energy star means having to use rinse aid and high water temps because otherwise the dishes don't get clean or dry. Well, rinse aid costs and takes energy to produce, bottle, transport etc. And you have the bottle to dispose of afterwards. I got a cheap GE with heated dry. Works great.

Mine isn't energy-star either. I started using it more after reading that a fully loaded dishwasher uses less total resources than washing them by hand, which makes sense. At my first apartment I just used the dishwasher as a drying rack, but then again I think I only owned 3 plates/cups/etc back then. Now that I have enough dishes to fill it I usually don't bother washing them by hand in the sink.

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:13 pm I’m still intrigued by Maddie’s suggestion to convert a chest freezer into a fridge. That sounds like it would work really well.

I saw this idea when I was reading about people converting vans into pseudo-RVs. If you get the right one, you wouldn't need to modify it to use it as a fridge. I think this Sun Danzer is very neat.

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:49 am

WiseOne wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:13 pm I doubt gas ranges are any more efficient than old ones, but for sure refrigerators are - good point.

Yea, something like a gas range I think going for as simple and durable as possible is the smartest thing. I don't understand the $15,000 Viking thing or whatever the fancy ones are. I like how some Japanese just have a simple canister-powered gas burner on their countertop.

I think Wolf ranges — mentioned by WiseOne — have a good reputation. Simple and durable. I don’t own one because I was already overbudget with the big aspects of renovation but hope to replace my junky Samsung with a Wolf someday.

Kriegs, are you talking about those things shaped like scales that can just sit on a dining table? I love those. Everyone in Taiwan had an electric one in the 90s. i guess the gas canister ones ar popular, too. My s.i.l. has one.

P.S. Hard Assets - if it hasn’t been mentioned, the Reveal podcast on fake art was really interesting. It seems like fakes and copies are keeping some places in business.

Just a few comments on the Wolf if you're considering....it is great, loved the simplicity, but there are some gotchas.

The all-gas range lacks self-clean and timer. Sorry, but self-clean was a deal breaker, and the timer thing is irritating. The dual fuel version (electric oven, gas top) has those things though. Also, the Wolf sacrifices a couple inches of the stovetop on each side, supposedly to protect the countertop. That means your 30" cooktop is actually only 26" wide. I wasn't crazy about that. I guess the idea is you're really supposed to get the 36" wide model, which is serious megabucks not to mention might not fit in your kitchen.

p.s. love talking kitchen appliances in a hard asset thread! So much more interesting. I suppose I could complete the link by stashing bullion in the oven storage drawer. (p.s. to trolling thieves: I don't stash bullion in the oven storage drawer. Or in the freezer.)

dualstow wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:57 am Kriegs, are you talking about those things shaped like scales that can just sit on a dining table? I love those. Everyone in Taiwan had an electric one in the 90s. i guess the gas canister ones ar popular, too. My s.i.l. has one.

Are you talking about induction burners? I'm talking about the thing that just looks like a single gas burner with the little prongs that you put the pot on, and it runs on a gas canister these things:

That which you posted a picture of above and also the electric tabletop cooktops, yep.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/avantc ... C18DB.html
I guess the latter are often (if not always) induction.

The non-induction hot plates appear to have limited function.
https://www.restaurantsupply.com/nemco- ... lid-burner

Last year, I played around with keeping one of these in my carry on bag for a while.
500 watt hotplate / dual voltage 110 or 220. About 5" diameter.

It turned out to be just too much of a pain to pack and carry through airports, so I ditched it pretty quickly. Worked well, though.

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:51 pm Last year, I played around with keeping one of these in my carry on bag for a while.
500 watt hotplate / dual voltage 110 or 220. About 5" diameter.

It turned out to be just too much of a pain to pack and carry through airports, so I ditched it pretty quickly. Worked well, though.

hotplate.jpeg

I dream of having one of these under a donabe, a Japanese clay cooking pot. They’re a luxury item but hey, I definitely consider them to be hard assets.

This is so Bogleheads.
Which is fine.

Another alternative investment asset to consider is a high end mechanical watch. It takes some education but many of the standards hold their value some far exceed their initial price. A good example is a Rolex green Submariner.

ppnewbie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:38 am Another alternative investment asset to consider is a high end mechanical watch. It takes some education but many of the standards hold their value some far exceed their initial price. A good example is a Rolex green Submariner.

This is the type of thing wherein you'd never actually wear it? It would be stored in some way so that there would be no risk of condition degradation?

Vinny

You could probably wear it at home, but not while baking cakes.

dualstow wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:03 am You could probably wear it at home, but not while baking cakes.

I have some quite valuable Marvel comic books that I bought when they came out in the 60s. Therefore they are not in pristine condition because I loved them and read them all at least twice.

I am told that now one of those comic books would never be read. That they'd be sealed up to protect it from the elements. The way to read them is to read a reprint version of the original issue.

Vinny

I think some of the people buying these watches are buying them to store in a safe place and seldom worn. Old ones cost more than new ones. But if you are not an expert or have money to burn, it’s probably better to avoid it.

More hard asset ideas courtesy of BelangP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsYATMmiQ1g

This topic is part of the subject of a book. Wealth, War, & Wisdom, by Barton Biggs. His focus is more on what happens to wealth when one of the Four Horsemen visits your world. He discusses stocks, bonds, artwork, property, overseas bank accounts, etc., mostly in the context of WW2. I found it to be an interesting read.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:54 am This topic is part of the subject of a book. Wealth, War, & Wisdom, by Barton Biggs. His focus is more on what happens to wealth when one of the Four Horsemen visits your world. He discusses stocks, bonds, artwork, property, overseas bank accounts, etc., mostly in the context of WW2. I found it to be an interesting read.

Ah, right. I remember the host of The Voluntary Life mentioned that book when MediumTex did his interview there. Sounds like a good read. I'll pick it up from the library if they have it.

Jake? Love that guy.

dualstow wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:11 pm Jake? Love that guy.

You'd think that I'd have remembered his name by now having listened to Craig and Tex's interviews while working out god knows how many times.